What Did You Do Today (2017)

[Ex contributorParticipant @mgnbuk]

Murray,

What control system has your Matchmaker got fitted & do you know anything of it's history ?

At my last employment we retrofitted quite a few of those – most seem to have originally been fitted with Posidata stepper motor controls & we changed those to Heidenhain controls with Indramat drives & SEM DC servomotors like the ones that appear to be fitted to your machine. Be interesting to see if its one of "mine" !

Nigel B

[davebParticipant @daveb17630]

Re: 1327 lathe problem. Posted in wrong thread, now moved (Thanks Jason).

I had a cheap worn out handsaw I'd ground off the teeth and shortened the blade (I used the material to make a spring). I was able to slide the blade between the headstock casting and the pulley. Running the lathe in reverse and levering on the saw handle moved the pulley about 4mm, which should be enough to remove the countershaft bracket. That's a job for another day!

Dave

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by daveb on 29/01/2017 00:17:57:

I was using my Warco 1327 (similar to the Chester Craftsman) lathe today when horrible squealing and grinding noises alerted me to a possible problem. Investigation revealed the either the headstock casting had shrunk or the countershaft had grown, the drive pulley being hard against the casting on the left and the countershaft bracket hard against the casting on the right. It appears that the nut securing the pulley has loosened allowing the pulley to move left. The pulley and a shoulder on the other side of the bearing locate the countershaft. The pulley is not loose, quite the reverse! There's no room the tap the pulley back into position, which it has to be to get the countershaft out. I'm thinking I will have to use a hole cutter on the casting to get a socket on the nut to tighten it.

Edited By JasonB on 29/01/2017 12:16:58

.

That sounds rather extreme, daveb

Do you have a photo to illustrate the problem ?

MichaelG.

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 Just noticed that you have [hopefully] found a less intrusive solution.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 29/01/2017 13:07:33

[RJWParticipant @rjw]

Posted by Martin W on 28/01/2017 17:22:03:

John

An extract from the NHS Choices page re Carbon Monoxide and its effects:

The symptoms of carbon monoxide poisoning aren't always obvious, particularly during low-level exposure.

A tension-type headache is the most common symptom of mild carbon monoxide poisoning. Other symptoms include:

• dizziness
• nausea (feeling sick) and vomiting
• tiredness and confusion
• stomach pain
• shortness of breath and difficulty breathing

Might just be coincidence but something to watch out for in future.

Martin

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 28/01/2017 18:33:20:

I'll echo that, I didn't like the smell a calor fire was making in out conservatory – I stuck a CO monitor in their and it went off after 20 minutes

Neil

Thanks Martin & Neil, that's pretty much the cause, I'm always mindful of fumes from the heater, but it surprised me how quickly it got me, I'd been traipsing in and out of the building continuously and there's a fair breeze under the up and over door at t'other end, so it's not as if there was a shortage of fresh air going in there,
Will have to think of other heating solutions though, can't continue with that risk when the building is finally draught proofed,

John.

[David JuppParticipant @davidjupp51506]

Trouble with CO is that it has higher affinity for the red blood cells than oxygen does. It takes ages to remove from the body. You were likely topping up the CO levels each time you went inside.

[Nick_GParticipant @nick_g]

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Last week I stripped off the saddle and tailstock and gave them a good clean. Regreased the apron gears and adjusted the gibs etc, etc.

Used it for a bit to let everything settle back in and decided I should check tailstock alignment to make sure it was not cutting a taper.

.

It was.!

5 thou larger at the tailstock end. So a little adjustment was required.

Nick

[RJWParticipant @rjw]

Posted by David Jupp on 29/01/2017 14:23:18:

Trouble with CO is that it has higher affinity for the red blood cells than oxygen does. It takes ages to remove from the body. You were likely topping up the CO levels each time you went inside.

You're probably right David, The bottle is also nearly empty and the burners were 'waffling' a bit, so maybe not burning efficiently, headache gone this morning and feel ok, but had a day off anyway, couple of degrees sub zero again, not nice handling cold steel.

John.

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

Hi Nigel_B

You are correct in identifying the servos as SEM DC (brushed) motors, with Heidenhain encoder and tacho feedback. There are quite a few pics of the machine in my album, including the internals of the massive controls cabinet.

These Shizuoka machines were sold for fitting out with CNC and various companies did so, on both sides of the Atlantic. Most were the “round head” AN-S model but mine is a square head AN-SB, with fixed ram and larger table. Despite scouring the internet rigorously, I’ve not managed to find another single example of this version.

The front controller (the large telly) is by Micon and although it appears to still talk to me, it is pretty much useless, as it has miniscule memory and the G codes are completely different to modern ones. That was a surprise, given that G codes were invented some time before this machine was built. However, it outputs step and direction signals, so potentially it could be replaced by a modern controller.

Internally it has a (Parker) PKS Digiplan PWM4 4 channel servo driver controlled by a SIM (servo interface module – an indexer to servo converter). Given that it was working when last tested, there must be a reasonable chance that I can retain the driver and SIM. The boards are low tech and as a power electronics engineer I should be able to keep them running, haha. If all else fails, there are possible replacement servo drivers available such as the CNCdrive products. Apparently many of these machines were retroconverted by the likes of Eagland using Ah-ha systems.

I’ve tracked down the original owner who bought it 30 years ago, used it for 20 and stored it for 10 after retirement. He sold it last year at auction but the new owner didn’t know what he’d bought. I was rather hoping he may have the original wiring manual for it but it seems I have inherited all the materials he had. I also managed to track down one of the 2 guys who built all of these machines at Matchmaker back in the 80s (currently living in Oz) and he was able to find me a manual for the PWM4 servo drive. Still no wiring manual but I’ve managed to reverse engineer much of it myself….

Mine has been very carefully looked after. He only ever used neat cutting oil and did precision engineering work on it. The original system claims to have a positional resolution of 5um and the NSK ball screws are very high quality. In the ideal outcome, I would replace the Micon telly with either a LinuxCNC controller or a stand alone (Chinese) Fanuc clone. Failing that I will have to replace the servo drives too. What could possibly go wrong?

Murray

[Ex contributorParticipant @mgnbuk]

Hi Murray,

Not one of mine then !

I have fitted many MT30s over the years – we used to buy Bridgeport Interact spec. combined motor / ERO115 encoder units by the pallet load at one point ! Very reliable if not abused – just as well these days given they are obsolete & parts supply limited. Tachos going open circuit on one winding was the main failure IIRC & the tach armature cost about half as much as a new motor back then.

I have not seen a Micon control for many years – Broadbent Hayes used them occasionally on a (truly awful) VMC they called the Digimill, though most had Anilam Crusaders or a PDP8 based Israeli system. One of the first solo service visits I did was to one of those at a toolmakers near Heathrow airport sometime in 1982. IIRC Micon were an offshoot or successor company to Posidata. The Broadbent Hayes Digimill rights & all parts went to a company in Poole called Micon White when Brooke Tool pulled the plug on their machine tool interests early 1983 – I don't know if the "Micon" was the same outfit, though.

The Chinese Fanuc clones look pretty good for the money, though be aware that the popular 990 type appear to be open loop, with step / direction outputs & no axis feedback provision.

It will be a capable machine when you get it running – good luck !

Nigel B

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

From what I have seen, there is no feedback beyond the encoder on the motor, ie no linear digital scales as such. So the servo controller ensures that the motor position is attained with great precision and any backlash beyond that will detract from the final positional accuracy.

I must admit I drew a complete blank trying to trace Micon and assumed they had been bought out and closed down or subsumed into something else, as is the way. IIRC, Micon was set up by an Israeli guy, so there may have been a connection to the system you referred to. Certainly, incorporating a PDP8 into it wouldn't have been cheap but these things cost as much as a house back then. The original purchase price of my actual machine back in 1983 was ~£40k, which translates to around £100k in today's money. He said he got some form of government grant to help out at the time.

I have a spare servo drive board, a spare motor and some spare boards for the Micon system. There's a parts list / drawings for a Shizuoka AN-S (so not actually for my machine although the family resemblance is clear) and a Micon software manual (of limited use). I also have various receipts, letters, notes and brochures.

The spindle motor is a proper variable speed machine (0-6000rpm), with a Hitachi VFD and "dynamic braking module" (wow). It has an air-operated back gear for low speeds and appears to have a spindle brake, although I have yet to locate it. It's not in the motor, as I have removed the belt and the spindle is still locked.

To avoid the need for 3-phase I will generate my own 80VDC for the servos from a reconfigured 110V CTE transformer and run the VFD from 230V single phase. Most of the other controls are 24VDC etc. It's got to be a real PITA to figure out but if the worst comes to the worst and I have to cut my losses, I know I have good basic mechanicals, motors, limit switches etc to start from.

Murray

[Bob RodgersonParticipant @bobrodgerson97362]

Today I did a spot of engraving on the Tormach. Turned out OK;

[Tony MarshallParticipant @tonymarshall12301]

Part of the G.H.Thomas rear tool post courtesy Hemingway. Starting point is a 5" x 7/8" mild steel bar. Quite pleased with it but it took me over 5 hours to complete – not including machine clean up time! While I enjoy watching these things take shape, I do wish I could work a bit quicker.

[JimmieSParticipant @jimmies]

Having been told yet again by the Council that 'we' must increase the amount of food waste and green matter collected as, instead of going to land fill, all road side collections are converted into high quality organic compost certified to BSI PAS 100, I decided to check what this illustrious standard is.

'Compliance with BSI PAS 100 or another equivalent quality standard accepted by the Council shall be independently verified on an annual basis by a suitably qualified third party organisation.' Seems another of those wonder systems where, when the paperwork is correct one day a year, everything is an outstanding success.

With no certainty of its contents or whether the composting process was correctly carried out on the other 364 days, I don't think I will be rushing to buy it at my local garden centre just yet.

Any other views?

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by JimmieS on 02/02/2017 20:05:31:

Having been told yet again by the Council that 'we' must increase the amount of food waste and green matter collected as, instead of going to land fill, all road side collections are converted into high quality organic compost certified to BSI PAS 100, I decided to check what this illustrious standard is.

'Compliance with BSI PAS 100 or another equivalent quality standard accepted by the Council shall be independently verified on an annual basis by a suitably qualified third party organisation.' Seems another of those wonder systems where, when the paperwork is correct one day a year, everything is an outstanding success.

With no certainty of its contents or whether the composting process was correctly carried out on the other 364 days, I don't think I will be rushing to buy it at my local garden centre just yet.

Any other views?

If it's like organic certification, you get an annual inspection, but they look at your whole year's record keeping. More like having your accounts audited than an MOT.

Neil

[Old SchoolParticipant @oldschool]

Not only records but also the documented quality systems and procedures, training records, goods inward inspection are a few of the things that will be audited annually.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Old School on 02/02/2017 22:25:23:

Not only records but also the documented quality systems and procedures, training records, goods inward inspection are a few of the things that will be audited annually.

Indeed. I used to run a place that had an organic nursery. in the end we dropped the certification as it was so onerous compared to the benefits. We didn't change our 'organic' policy but we lost the right to kitemark our stuff.

Neil

[Mark P.Participant @markp]

We’ve just been told that the charge for our green waste bin is now 40 quid!
Mark P.

Edited By Mark P. on 03/02/2017 10:21:04

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

Yes but why should other CT payers pay for it for you?

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by JimmieS on 02/02/2017 20:05:31:

Having been told yet again by the Council that 'we' must increase the amount of food waste and green matter collected as, instead of going to land fill, all road side collections are converted into high quality organic compost certified to BSI PAS 100, I decided to check what this illustrious standard is.

'Compliance with BSI PAS 100 or another equivalent quality standard accepted by the Council shall be independently verified on an annual basis by a suitably qualified third party organisation.' Seems another of those wonder systems where, when the paperwork is correct one day a year, everything is an outstanding success.

With no certainty of its contents or whether the composting process was correctly carried out on the other 364 days, I don't think I will be rushing to buy it at my local garden centre just yet.

Any other views?

Jimmie is quite right to be suspicious of quality standards: I worked with a well-known company that tried to get ISO9001 by copying someone else's unrelated Quality Manual. (They failed.)

When it comes to standards, much depends on the attitude of Management. Some just want the badge; some know what they should be doing but find reasons for not doing it; some don't understand their own processes and shoe-horn standards creating a bureaucratic nightmare, and – hallelluyah – some get it right.

I think having a standard is better than not bothering – despite human failings, they tend to improve matters. As Churchill said "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others."

As to compost, I prefer mine not to contain sewage sludge and e-coli, which BSI PAS 100 bans.

What I would like to see is much tougher measures being taken against people who claim complience without actually delivering it. Heavy fines and gaol sentences for people who misuse CE marks etc. To make that work, we would need a Parliament that resourced enforcement of new legislation rather than just voting it into law and hoping for the best. (Is it not very strange that unfit horsemeat entered the human food chain on a huge scale without anyone being prosecuted?)

Dave

[Mark P.Participant @markp]

Kwil, our council sell the green waste to a composting firm.
Mark P.

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Posted by Mark P. on 03/02/2017 10:20:23:
We've just been told that the charge for our green waste bin is now 40 quid!
Mark P.

Edited By Mark P. on 03/02/2017 10:21:04

So just think how much you would be charged if they didn't.

Martin

[Mark P.Participant @markp]

Martin it was a free service until a couple of years ago.
Mark P.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Went to my favourite secondhand book emporia. The very first book in their Engineering section is "Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus". Next to it on the shelf, 5 copies of '50 Shades of Grey'.

I think it's a message: does anyone understand it?

Dave

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 03/02/2017 16:17:34:

Went to my favourite secondhand book emporia. The very first book in their Engineering section is "Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus". Next to it on the shelf, 5 copies of '50 Shades of Grey'.

I think it's a message: does anyone understand it?

Dave

First one clearly belongs in the Astronomy section, the other is a list of official Myford paint colours.

Neil

[Sam Longley 1Participant @samlongley1]

Posted by Mark P. on 03/02/2017 10:20:23:
We've just been told that the charge for our green waste bin is now 40 quid!
Mark P.

Edited By Mark P. on 03/02/2017 10:21:04

Just lob the grass & leaves in a hedge— could you really be fined for that ?. Not really "waste" in the true sense of the word , as in "old fridge" etc etc is it?

The council leave grass clippings by the road side when they cut the grass & are quite happy for their trees to shed their leaves into someones garden on a windy day. They also trim the hedges & leave the arisings in the ditch. So what is the difference?

[Author]

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