Warco WM16 or WM18?

[Grant NicholasParticipant @grantnicholas81434]

[Grant NicholasParticipant @grantnicholas81434]

Gents

I have pretty much made up my mind that my WM250 lathe should be complimented with a Mill, however, I am torn between the WM16 & WM18 models.

http://www.warco.co.uk/milling-machines/32-wm-16-variable-speed-milling-machine.html

http://www.warco.co.uk/milling-machines/33-wm-18-variable-speed-milling-machine.html

Obviously WM18 boasts a bigger table with a 3MT spindle and 20mm maximum End Milling capacity as opposed to the 2MT spindle and 16mm End Milling capacity. The motor on the WM18 is also stronger by 350W.

Question is will a upstart like me benefit from it? Am I better off purchasing the smaller model and spending the money saved on a good vice and accessories? Have any WM16 or even WM14 owners wished they had something a little bigger or are you more than happy with your choice?

Like most members here I am simply a hobby user who enjoys the challenge of making something from nothing, I doubt I will ever get into the world of locomotives or engines, but have been known to eat my words……..

I look forward to your valued comments.

Grant

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Does either have an R8 option? Much better than MT for a mill IMHO.

[Nick_GParticipant @nick_g]

.

I should state that I have not used any of the machines but I have had my grubby maulers on them.

The price of a WM 18 that you are considering is not quite as much but getting close to that of an SX3.

IMHO while a bit more expensive the SX3 feels a considerably better piece of kit than the WM18 – More than the price difference. It is also available in an R8 spindle.

Have a nosey. Here is the link to one. **LINK**

Regards, Nick

[Martin WhittleParticipant @martinwhittle67411]

Hi Grant

I have a WM250 lathe and WM16 mill. Before I purchased these, I had been considering their smaller brothers, in consideration of limited workshop space. I have never stretched the capabilities of these machines, apart from some difficulty drilling a work-piece held in an upright indexing head, when I was simply running out of height on the mill column.

I am pleased and content with my choice of machines, but also very glad that I did not buy smaller versions. I know that I do have the capability of working on larger items if necessary, and at greater speed than smaller machinery. For example, the swing on my lathe, like yours, will allow me to turn larger (but not very large!) flywheels if/when I want to make a steam or internal combustion engine.

It depends on how much room you have to place the machines, and how deep your pockets are. As you suggest, you will not know what projects will take your fancy in the future!

MT3 tooling will be more expensive than MT2, and in any case you may well find that tooling and work-holding costs will soon approach that of the machine, whichever you choose.

A larger milling table may allow room for two working set-ups on the table, or allow a set-up to be undisturbed while using the mill just for another drilling job.

This may not help you very much, but If you have room, and can afford it, the larger machine may be attractive. But as I say, I am happy with the WM16.

Martin.

[Thor 🇳🇴Participant @thor]

Hi Grant,

I have a milling machine similar to the Warco WM16, but with a MT 3 spindle (and slightly heavier). If I was buying today I would have bought a heavier milling machine. Whether you go for the WM18 or a SX 3 is up to you.

Thor

[Paul LousickParticipant @paullousick59116]

Grant,

The size of the mill depends on what you want to do with it. Your job has to fit under the spindle with tooling. I have a Sieg SX3 which does most of my projects but at times I would like a bigger machine. A bigger mill is more rigid and if I did upgrade to another mill, I would have to also replace some of my tooling. My advice is to go as big as you can afford.

Paul.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Don't know what the taper in the 250 lathe is but it can be helpful to have the taper in the mill match the lathe and then be able to share collets etc this could save you the price difference.

[MalcBParticipant @malcb52554]

Posted by Bazyle on 19/12/2015 08:57:49:

Don't know what the taper in the 250 lathe is but it can be helpful to have the taper in the mill match the lathe and then be able to share collets etc this could save you the price difference.

This is one of the better reasons to consider IMO.

I use a MT3 mounted ER40 chuck in my Chester 626. I also have a backing plate mounted ER40 chuck in my lathe which allows me to share up to 26mm collets on both. I did use a MT3 at first in my lathe with homemade draw bar. My lathe and the Miller are both MT3, but with the backing plate mounted ER chucks that are now becoming more prolific it's not essential that lathe taper actually needs to match Miller anyway.

Like others I have lifted the head of the Miller up by 110mm with a spacer. This means I practically never have to take the ER40 chuck off the Miller. In fact up to now only for face mill and slitting arbor use. For speed I also use a smaller and larger precision parallel shank mounted chucks mounted in a collets.

It's quite surprising really what cutters and methods you can adapt to get in the collets up to 26mm.

For this reason the more height and travel you have on your Z axis the more versatile things become and less holder changes are needed, so you may well want to look at the bigger machine. I suppose there's something in the saying " what will hold more will hold less" and I don't think you will loose any precision twixt the two machines.

[Martin King 2Participant @martinking2]

Hi Grant,

I am very much a beginner but am very happy with my WM18 overall, especially after fitting a power X feed, helped by members on here, it really does make the machine MUCH more pleasant to use.

Only negative aspect is that the digital control readout for fine down feed is a bit mickey mouse and sometimes has a mind of its own. I intend to modify this soon when my skills are a bit better.

It certainly seems that the maxim 'buy the biggest you can accommadate and afford' is true! Stablity, power and headspace all are better and allow more versatile use.

Regards,

Martin

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

Hi Grant

I have both the WM250V-F & the WM16 mill, both bought as a package from the Harrogate exhibition back in 2012, both have performed most satisfactorily to date. I have MT2 tooling that fits both machines so that's a plus, in hindsight I would have gone for the WM18 but space & budget were limiting factors, plus as a package I managed to get a reasonable discount on the day & so was not disappointed.

Getting the package allowed me to purchase some extra tooling on the day so that was another plus, you've also got to bear in mind the cost of all the extra tooling you would like to have / get over time & that can amount to as much if not more than the machine cost… believe me!..

I was also looking at the SX3 & Chester's machines at the same time but could not get any discounts or other sweeteners, plus they all slapped a delivery charge on top of the purchase price whereas Warco's included delivery so another plus. I can't speak for R8 tooling as not having used it other than many years ago in industrial environment, other than to say at the time most of my tooling was/is either MT2 / 3 so false economy & illogical to rebuy tooling that I already had. The tailstock on the lathe is MT2 & the quill on the WM16 is also MT2 so interchangeability reigns.

Having said all that you have to consider what your budget is, what space you have, what are you going to make etc. a lot of hobbyists are quite happy with smaller machinery Sieg 0-1-2, Peatols Hobbymats etc. so 'horses for courses'. Whatever machines you end up with by the time you've gotten used to it/them & it's/their foibles you'll enjoy what you are making… frustratingly at times! …but once you've built/made something, & it works, the satisfaction is huge.

There is an ongoing thread for Warco enthusiasts for information & comments that was originated back in 2013…

Posted by Rik Shaw on 15/05/2013 13:06:34:

Several of us on here have agreed that owners of the above machines might find it useful to have a dedicated thread in order to exchange ideas and info. So, providing the moderators approve I'd like this to be the start.

Rik

Plus link…

**LINK**

Happy hunting & enjoy

George.

[its-smeeParticipant @its-smee]

I too have a WM250 lathe and WM16 mill. I did consider their smaller brothers, because of my limited workshop space. I am pleased and content with my choice of machines, but also very glad that I did not buy smaller versions. Another factor to consider is the weight and headroom. I would have liked the larger version but after having struggled to get my lathe on it's stand I purchased a folding engine hoist to do the lifting. but If you have room, and can lift it, the larger machine may be attractive. But as I say, I am happy with the WM16.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

The bigger the better is good advice, but don't forget whatever you get has to fit in your workshop and you have to have the wherewithal to cope with the extra weight.

Like Martin King 2 I have a WM18 that came with an erratic Z DRO. In my case the problem was due to a small misalignment of the fixed and moving parts of the DRO caused by a rough casting that interfered with the fit. The washer fitted to overcome this wasn't quite good enough and the DRO tended to bind and jump. Removed from the mill the DRO worked fine.

Once I'd worked out what the problem was it was easily fixed in a few minutes by filing the casting until the DRO ran straight.

I've owned the mill for a year and haven't had any other problems with it.

Regards,

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 19/12/2015 23:39:28

[Grant NicholasParticipant @grantnicholas81434]

Gents

Many thanks for all the comments, suggestions, links and advice. The SX3 does look like a very good option, however, my budget will not cover cost of SX3, workstand and tooling.

So bank balance and space in the single garage makes the WM16 a better option and as already suggested, my tooling can be used across both bits of machinery. I would prefer to get the WM18, but realistically I am just a hobby user that will be making the odd tool or part every now and again and feel that this combo will suit my needs perfectly.

Thanks once again!

G

[BOB BLACKSHAW 1Participant @bobblackshaw1]

Hello, after writing a post about what milling machine to get, I have read these replies and would like to have a VM18.

My problem is lifting it in position as I am now limited in space, is it possible to strip the machine down to moveable parts and reassemble when on the stand.

If you can not strip it down, I have chain pulley that lifted my lathe with ease, but how do you lift a mill with a pulley, its going to be top heavy or a problem it will flick over, the strip down if possible would be my best option.

Bob

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[Thor 🇳🇴Participant @thor]

Hi Bob,

In MEW #145 (Dec. 2008) David White has an article about Weiss WMD25 milling machine and how to strip it down. This is a bit smaller than the WM18, but I don't think you should have any problem removing the head and table. I have the WMD25 milling machine and I just removed the head when my friend and I moved my machine into my basement workshop. I used a chain pulley to lift it up onto a stand. I used a strap under the base and another strap around the first strap and the upper part of the column. It was no problem getting the milling machine up on the stand.

Thor

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

It seems a few of the owners of WM16 would like a WM18 but the OP is ok with a WM16. Perhaps ti would be an opportunity to get together and for one to upgrade and move the original machine on to a new owner.

Taking the head off might still leave a problem with getting that head up higher to get it in position. They look small enough for a two man lift but probably aren't. Blocks of wood, lots of them, levers and wedges can do a lot. If hoisting don't use the lever action winch known in the 'states as a 'come-along' because although they can lift things the ratchets slip when trying to lower. (tis may not be immediately obvious the first ten times you try it but does happen)

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