Warco WM-250 motor problems

[Martin Botting 2Participant @martinbotting2]

Less than a year I return with another question for fellow warco WM series lathes, last problem was the thread dial, now this wonder of modern equipment has developed a new problem being that it sometimes has a temperamental start up, I switch on and open the NVR "BIG RED BUTTON" select direction and press the "go" button, CLUNK… nothing. hit the stop button clunk… start clunk.. nothing… switch to reverse clunk… motion! hurrah. Stop change direction press start CLUNK…. bugger all, "cover your ears mother!" anyway it sometimes takes 3 cycles of switching and clunking to get it rolling, then away we go and start a cut (nothing like heavy) "whine" power goes and lathe comes to a graunching halt. wind out/ off re start. I have been in touch with warco and they have said several things, "brushes sticking up" "hmmm that does not sound good" and finally after several emails return it to the works for investigation, I have an issue with that I live in a terraced house and everything needs to come through the front door, I wrote another email saying it would be easier for them to send an engineer to look at it on site as when it arrived the helpful delivery driver came at 7pm and said he would drop it at my front step and quoted H&S that he could not help me up the front step into the hallway.

Has anyone else had similar problems with the motor and drive on theirs?

ALSO…. The apron gearbox has never stopped leaking since it was unboxed, there was a puddle in the packing case. I have taken out the drain plug twice now and used ptfe and silicon sealant but its still leaking, Dear Deirdre have i been sold a pup?

[Martin Botting 2Participant @martinbotting2]

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

The only comment I would make is that I would be checking the casting quality of the apron, if you are sure your attempts at fitting the plug is the best possible.

Possibilities might be cross threading (if it is leaking past the threads), a cracked casting or a porous casting. Might be others, but if leaking while just standing there are not too many options. Question might be: is it a tapered or parallel thread?

[SteveWParticipant @stevew54046]

I had a similar running problem. You can test motor with 12v. I eventually found it was a resistor on the control board not fully seated. That would be my first try. I posted a picture in 'wm250 and wm16' thread. Mine has been fine since. I would have a very careful look for the source of the oil leak. Gearbox not overfilled?

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I thought they all had a total loss system its not the plug (as I don't have one) it just seeps out around the various shafts as the seals are not quite seals, but my 280 is still going strong after 10yrs use.

[Martin Botting 2Participant @martinbotting2]

Posted by not done it yet on 04/11/2016 19:29:49:

The only comment I would make is that I would be checking the casting quality of the apron, if you are sure your attempts at fitting the plug is the best possible.

Possibilities might be cross threading (if it is leaking past the threads), a cracked casting or a porous casting. Might be others, but if leaking while just standing there are not too many options. Question might be: is it a tapered or parallel thread?

The plug is so tight to the drip tray and with the use of mirrors and a much cut down allen key and without the use of a safety net is had to see much under there.

[Martin Botting 2Participant @martinbotting2]

Posted by JasonB on 04/11/2016 19:59:12:

I thought they all had a total loss system its not the plug (as I don't have one) it just seeps out around the various shafts as the seals are not quite seals, but my 280 is still going strong after 10yrs use.

Ah thats what its called huh? I thought Mr Ho Lee Warco had a deal with some major oil company. I am going to try spooning dripping in to it it will take longer for it to come out.

[Martin Botting 2Participant @martinbotting2]

Posted by SteveW on 04/11/2016 19:50:07:

I had a similar running problem. You can test motor with 12v. I eventually found it was a resistor on the control board not fully seated. That would be my first try. I posted a picture in 'wm250 and wm16' thread. Mine has been fine since. I would have a very careful look for the source of the oil leak. Gearbox not overfilled?

Thanks steve I will go take a look if I can find the thread, I am always a bit scared of the electric-ery I mean I have a toaster that can't pop up a crumpet but when I shove a fork in to get it out it has no problem slinging all 16 stone of me across the kitchen.

[Rik ShawParticipant @rikshaw]

Martin – my observations on the wm 250. Re: apron oil leak. If you leave it long enough it eventually stops leaking. Maybe there is so much muck in there it forms a seal!!!

The motor? – This poor old unit will stall as soon as look at it and if you do not start it at min revs and stop it at min revs it is quite likely to blow the guts out of a very expensive (£100 plus) speed control board – I am presently on board number three. The motor gets very hot when only moderately stressed and will stall easily. Using this lathe is like walking on broken glass – every time I turn it on I expect it to pop and every day it doesn't seems a bonus.

I am not surprised that Warco have discontinued supplying this model of lathe with the same electroguts as mine – I only wish I had known they would be doing so _ I would have held back awhile.

Rikĺ

[Martin Botting 2Participant @martinbotting2]

Posted by Rik Shaw on 04/11/2016 22:10:12:

Martin – my observations on the wm 250. Re: apron oil leak. If you leave it long enough it eventually stops leaking. Maybe there is so much muck in there it forms a seal!!!

The motor? – This poor old unit will stall as soon as look at it and if you do not start it at min revs and stop it at min revs it is quite likely to blow the guts out of a very expensive (£100 plus) speed control board – I am presently on board number three. The motor gets very hot when only moderately stressed and will stall easily. Using this lathe is like walking on broken glass – every time I turn it on I expect it to pop and every day it doesn't seems a bonus.

I am not surprised that Warco have discontinued supplying this model of lathe with the same electroguts as mine – I only wish I had known they would be doing so _ I would have held back awhile.

Rikĺ

[Martin Botting 2Participant @martinbotting2]

I should have checked my first post and said it's the variable speed version I have and I had a few of the covers off and the picture Steve W posted in another thread bares no resemblance to whats behind any of the little covers i have taken of thus far, unless its like an advent calendar and I have not found the right one yet. I have had a look at the casing of the motor and the access to the brushes is not obvious so far.

[Richard MarksParticipant @richardmarks80868]

Dismantle the motor and clean and check the brushes.

[John RuddParticipant @johnrudd16576]

Martin,

With the motor running, does it sound ok? No wierd noises? Does it run smoothly and at its normal speed?

If I were a betting man, I'd say its possible that you may have a faulty motor given the symptoms…..but you would need to rule out any electro-mechanical failure of the controls and wiring….

[John RuddParticipant @johnrudd16576]

One more thought,

If you manually spin the motor over when you have gone through the start process, does the motor run then?

Edited By John Rudd on 05/11/2016 08:15:58

[ScrumpyParticipant @scrumpy]

Are these lathes that bad as I was going to order a WM 250 V with power feed but all your comments are putting me off should I go the Chester route many thanks Derek

[Gray62Participant @gray62]

Posted by Scrumpy on 05/11/2016 10:53:26:

Are these lathes that bad as I was going to order a WM 250 V with power feed but all your comments are putting me off should I go the Chester route many thanks Derek

I've had one of the newer WM250V lathes for almost 2 years now, I use it as a second op machine and it has given no trouble at all. The WM250V has a3 phase AC motor driven from a Delta inverter, so a lot more reliable than the older models with DC drive and motor. I've had several machines from Warco and not had any major issues with any, same cannot be said for the two machines I had from Chester, but that was a long time ago and things may have changed since then.

No affiliation with Warco, they just happen to be local so I favour them.

[Christopher Taylor 1Participant @christophertaylor1]

Martin, I have an identical machine and had a similar problem which turned out to be a bent shaft within the carriage gearbox (easy to determine by seeing if the lathe will run with the gear train disconnected). Once I replaced the shaft all was well. Getting the old one out was problematical which resulted in damage to the gear wheel it carried. Both obtainable from Warco but quite expensive and if I had to do it again I would make both parts. I also found quite a lot of casting sand in the bottom of the casing which I naturally removed in the process. Hope this helps.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Don't know the WM250, but if the saddle is anything like that on the BH600 (Similar lathes are Chester Craftsman and ETR BL12/24), it seems to be fairly easy to bend the shaft with integral pinion that engages with the rack. It is if you are as clumsy as I was!

Warco quoted to supply spares from stock. Good service back up, but expensive, in my view.

There are instructions on how to remove the saddle on a thread dealing with the BH600, Think it is "I screwed up" – I certainly did, but am grateful for the instructions provided by a fellow sufferer.

So made up my own shaft and cut a new pinion. The cost of the Silver Steel and 1.5Mod gear cutter was about half of the part + delivery+VAT.

Hope that you get things sorted.

Howard

[Martin Botting 2Participant @martinbotting2]

Posted by Richard Marks on 04/11/2016 23:08:45:

Dismantle the motor and clean and check the brushes.

Richard, I don't mind getting my hands dirty but I have serious worries about pulling a motor apart. i will have to get the thing unbolted from the bench so I can get to the thing. taking the wires off will require some notes and pictures. i did write to warco asking if they could send an engineer out rather than me having to do all this.

[Richard MarksParticipant @richardmarks80868]

Unbolt and remove the motor, tie a long piece of string to the motor lead so you can pull it back to the board, unscrew the brushes, you don't need to dismantle the motor, clean the brushes and holders so they slide in nice and easy, put everything back together and it should be okay, this is a common fault on these machines.

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

I have just finished a saddle removal on my 250V-F the other week to find the leak on mine, mentioned some time back in the Warco 250 & WM16 family thread I've had the machine since 2012, bought at Harrogate exhibition. I noticed the leak early on but as said it was a minor annoyance & as it only needed a small top up every couple of months I left it.

I didn't have too much hassle dismantling it, but noted that the lead screw only comes out one way, left to right, ( once you've taken shear pin out ), the as the drive keyway doesn't run all the way along the leadscrew, it tapers off at the tailstock end, don't lose the drive key… don't ask, luckily I found it. The spring swarf guard is a PIA to get off/on by the way even so I decided to put it back on when I'd reassembled it.

As others have noted I found some casting sand in there also, but a good wash out with white spirits got rid of most of it, I didn't strip the saddle right down as I didn't want to disturb any other sealing methods nor start punching taper pins out of gears. The problems was the drain plug wasn't secured up tight on assembly… it is a parallel thread not a tapered plug, so some PTFE tape & Loctite sealant was applied as a remedy, I fitted a rare earth magnet onto the plug prior to re-assembly as a precautionary measure. Having checked this week there is still a leak… but noticeably less than before so I suspect some casting porosity is the major problem with these machines, but at the moment I can live with it.

A couple of pics for your interest…

Leadscrew brg off…

General assembly of saddle gearing…

Saddle & leadscrew removed…

Earth magnet fitted to drain plug…

I made a paper gasket for the saddle joint as there wasn't any form of jointing on original assembly, didn't have any jointing/gasket material/brown paper/Hylomar or the like, other than printer paper to hand so cleaned up a couple of burrs off the edges, smeared some grease onto both surfaces before sticking the printer paper on… well it's not exactly a gas turbine joint is it, so sumfink is better than nuffink innit. It's back in service now & as said can live with the much lesser leak… I know, purists will comment should have fixed in right in the first place but can't be a***d stripping it down again… & with the probability of there being casting porosity in the equation…well… ?

George.

 

Edited By mechman48 on 05/11/2016 21:35:57

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

If the plug thread is parallel it should have a sealing washer on a flat sealing surface of the plug against a machined seat on the housing, so no ptfe tape, etc should be required. Sometimes the sealing surfaces are chamfered for a crush or deforming washer.

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

Posted by not done it yet on 05/11/2016 22:24:30:

If the plug thread is parallel it should have a sealing washer on a flat sealing surface of the plug against a machined seat on the housing, so no ptfe tape, etc should be required. Sometimes the sealing surfaces are chamfered for a crush or deforming washer.

I'd already considered this; mine doesn't have flanged faces to put an 'o' ring or Dowty washer up against to seal against the saddle casting, just a straight threaded plug… both filler & drain plugs, others may have, so I am going to have to make two new flanged ones, ready for future use when I next strip it down. I will be checking the thread size next week to determine whether it's 3/8 BSP or 16 mm.

George.

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

Have checked filler plug & as far as I can make out with my thread gauges it is 3/8 BSPP… OD is .657 … 19 TPI… but it is a very slack fit… same as the drain plug. why do the Chinese make metric lathes with imperial tappings ? … maybe it's standard castings for metric & imperial … some pics…

No flat surface to put an 'o' ring / Dowty washer on …

Metric size…

Imperial size…

Maybe I'll just get a couple of BSPT plugs & wrap a couple of turns of PTFE tape on the threads, quicker than faffing on making new flanged plugs…

George.

[Martin Botting 2Participant @martinbotting2]

Latest news folks Warco sent out a van and a man and have taken the clunking oil dripping machine back to the works, The van driver told me to lighten it up so that involved a kit of parts being sent back to Surrey, I await the outcome and I hope they send a couple of mates with the van driver as I am not pulling my plumbs out again trying to get it back in the workshop.

[Author]

Posts