stamford show vandals

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

There is more than a glimmer of truth in 'Gee Officer Krupke!" **LINK**

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tsk0MkDYHJM

MichaelG

[PlasmaParticipant @plasma]

Its heartening to see some of the later posts advocating a more balanced approach to the problem. But again the solutions revolve around money and more importantly effective management of any restorative or community punishment. As SOD said as soon as the parole guys back was turned they revert to type.

Until we end austerity and actually invest in something that's not a HS 2 waste of money etc. We will carry on seeing similar stories as the youth are left high and dry.

We made the conscious decision not to have children 30 years ago because of the state of the world then, just look at it now!

It's an intractable problem but I think its refreshing to chat about it here in a measured way.

Mick

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember53456]

[This posting has been removed]

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Samsaranda on 20/05/2019 15:38:58:

As soon as the supervisor left the site the petrol was poured away and those remaining then focussed their attention on trying to break into the church to find something worth stealing.

This is very sad. I saw a group of 'young adults' doing community service at an allotments. They had cleared a whole box-back transit load of rubbish and their banter appeared to suggest they were actually pleased with what they'd done. Probably because the supervisor was treating them like they were doing a useful job.

I imagine this is the sort of thing that has been hit by the problems with probation services.

Neil

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember32069]

[This posting has been removed]

[MikelkieParticipant @mikelkie]

Posted by Harry Wilkes on 19/05/2019 15:25:46:

Without getting polical the problem in this country is there are no deterrents, to many soft sentences !!!

H

The sentences these poor specimen of mankind getting is a worldwide phenomenon, and in my opinion the problem lies with the human rights bullshit, Animals have rights and humans have privileges with inseparably accountability Sentencing such conduct should be harsh to these maggots who can't create anything for themselves only destruct and destroy what others have achieved

I can say "my condolence i feel for thee"

[paul raynerParticipant @paulrayner36054]

yes I agree with a lot of what the forum members are saying BUT,

I had nothing when I was a kid.

I know what is right and what is wrong.

I chose which path I traveled down.

[vintage engineerParticipant @vintageengineer]

When I was younger I grew up overseas and I deviated from the correct path. I was sentenced to receive 6 "Cuts" at the local Police Station with a Doctor present.

I have never strayed since and most of the people who received similar punishment didn't either! It did work and word spread around school about the results of the punishment!

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember53456]

[This posting has been removed]

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Mikelkie on 20/05/2019 19:10:24:

Posted by Harry Wilkes on 19/05/2019 15:25:46:.

…

… in my opinion the problem lies with the human rights bullshit, …

Specifically which of the Articles of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights do you object to? They seem harmless enough to me.

Inverting a few articles might give a better sense of what they're about, for example:

• No one has the right to life, liberty and security of person.
• Everyone shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be allowed in all their forms.
• Everyone shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.

No doubt Human Rights are imperfect but I submit we are better off with them than without.

Dave

[ronan walshParticipant @ronanwalsh98054]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 20/05/2019 20:32:45:

Posted by Mikelkie on 20/05/2019 19:10:24:

Posted by Harry Wilkes on 19/05/2019 15:25:46:.

…

… in my opinion the problem lies with the human rights bullshit, …

Specifically which of the Articles of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights do you object to? They seem harmless enough to me.

Inverting a few articles might give a better sense of what they're about, for example:

• No one has the right to life, liberty and security of person.
• Everyone shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be allowed in all their forms.
• Everyone shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.

No doubt Human Rights are imperfect but I submit we are better off with them than without.

Dave

So would you be all for the returning ISIS fighters to be given a council flat and generous social welfare payments ? Because thats what the liberal human rights nuts are fighting for.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Let's not get political.

I'll just say that the best way to identify a civilised society is that it doesn't sink to the level of those that seek to undermine it.

I felt pretty uncomfortable seeing photos of crowds with signs saying 'Hang Asia Bibi' I am equally uncomfortable if those suggesting similar levels of punishment for the layout wreckers are serious.

Great hurt has been done to those whose work has been destroyed, and many of us feel like this is an attack on outr hobby by young people who don't understand or even mock us for 'playing trains'. But that doesn't give us licence to lash out.

Here's a suggestion, I know it might be hard for the club, but perhaps one good use for some of the donations would be to establish a model railway club at the school. Not for the perpetrators, but for their peers.

Neil

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

A similar thought ran through my head, the public generosity looks to have covered the aspect of the losses that money could buy but the club are going to have years of work to rebuild. I suspect a useful sum could be found to fund some sort of youth project that could engage some youngsters in making things rather than breaking things.

Mike

[Blue HeelerParticipant @blueheeler]

Thankfully the UK courts can no longer send them to Australia !

I read that Rod Stewart was donating 10,000 pounds, that's a nice gesture and I hope that the victims in this terrible crime are feeling the support and will continue with their pastime that they enjoy.

[thaiguzziParticipant @thaiguzzi]

Posted by Speedy Builder5 on 20/05/2019 15:09:12:

Thaiguzzi. De-forrestation, Palm oil plantations ……. its all vandalism.

BobH

Er, thats governments, corporations and corruption. In SE Asia.

I was talking about vandalism in Britain.

Like for example, when i lived there, my 10 y/o non descript 1500 quid Merc parked outside my 2 bedroomed terraced house on the street had it's Star motif snapped off 3 times and keyed once. Meanwhile a newer 4 grand non descript Ford or Vauxhall was never touched.

Ditto my Moto Guzzi – keyed tank.

Why is their a class thing that exists in the UK that likes to damage stuff that they "presume" belongs to somebody posher?

Ditto, outdoor keep fit stuff for adults, playground stuff for kids, if it's not nailed down it's nicked, if it is nailed down, it's vandalized.

This stuff does not happen in Europe.

By the way i drove that beloved manual Merc in my oily greasy overalls to & fro from work.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by thaiguzzi on 21/05/2019 03:26:27:

This stuff does not happen in Europe.

Oh yes it does. *LINK* Stupid instagram model (whatever that is) smashes nose off historic priceless Polish statue. Posts video of it. Then wonders why she loses her modelling contract.

Not to mention the great vandalism spree of 1939-45.

Human nature. It's universal. You ain't gonna change it. It seems the security arrangements at the model show did not allow for this. Looks like they ran rampage for quite a while before anyone showed up to stop them. It could not have been quiet with all that damage. Sad that a community event should have to plan for such scrotism but that's the way it is.

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Why is their a class thing that exists in the UK that likes to damage stuff that they "presume" belongs to somebody posher?

Not always the case. Consider the Bullingdon club.

Martin

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by ronan walsh on 20/05/2019 22:21:34:

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 20/05/2019 20:32:45:

Posted by Mikelkie on 20/05/2019 19:10:24:

Posted by Harry Wilkes on 19/05/2019 15:25:46:.

…

… in my opinion the problem lies with the human rights bullshit, …

…

No doubt Human Rights are imperfect but I submit we are better off with them than without.

Dave

So would you be all for the returning ISIS fighters to be given a council flat and generous social welfare payments ? Because thats what the liberal human rights nuts are fighting for.

Not at all Ronan! I think British citizens who return to the UK after committing a crime should be put on trial and – if found guilty – punished for what they did. I am not against severe punishments provided they are deserved and effective.

The point of Human Rights is that you don't want policemen, slimy politicians or paranoid dictators changing the rules as it takes their fancy. And, in the event a law is democratically passed that accidentally removes a Human Right, you want to live in a country were the injustice can be challenged. Human Rights are very much to your advantage.

Plenty of examples of vile behaviour on a grand scale when Human Rights are ignored: Stalinist Russia, Pol Pot, Nazi Germany, Rwanda, Apartheid South Africa, Jim Crow Laws, North Korea, the Cultural Revolution, Argentina's 'Dirty War', Armenia, and 'Ethnic Cleansing' etc etc etc.

Dave

[Clive IndiaParticipant @cliveindia]

Edited out – comments removed – an unsuccessful attempt to give a reason why this happened. Nobody listening.

Edited By Clive India on 21/05/2019 21:10:41

[Chris TriceParticipant @christrice43267]

Victim impact statements should definitely form part of the judgement when it comes to sentencing. The psychological impact on these poor guys should not be dismissed as I'm sure many of them are devastated.

[vintage engineerParticipant @vintageengineer]

Singapore is a very civilised country and very safe. This is because the punishments are quite severe but everyone knows what will happen if they break the law. These yobs would be caned with a ratten cane. There is very little crime in Singapore and this due to the public being full aware of the punishments and they fully support them.

Outside Changi Prison there are signs stating all intruders will be shot dead and they aren't joking!

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

So do you want to live in a country which is hardly a functioning democracy, and scores 4 on a scale of freedom rating (7 is worst, 1 is best). UK rates at 1, same as Germany and Netherlands, slightly higher than France which is 1.5

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Threatening severe punishment doesn't work. People imagine vile threats should change behaviour, but in practice threats aren't effective. People would rather burn at the stake than recant religious dogma.

What makes a real difference to behaviour is the probability of getting caught. Efficient policing reduces crime even if the punishments are relatively mild.

There has to be an element of punishment, but no-one wants a penal system that produces brutalised career criminals with a permanent grudge.

Dave

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by duncan webster on 21/05/2019 11:35:47:

So do you want to live in a country which is hardly a functioning democracy, and scores 4 on a scale of freedom rating (7 is worst, 1 is best). UK rates at 1, same as Germany and Netherlands, slightly higher than France which is 1.5

Shhh. You'll end up in Changi with the rest of them who mentioned the government's shortcomings to someone else.

[PlasmaParticipant @plasma]

SOD hit the nail on the head, fairly and squarely! The only thing strong deterrent sentences do is encourage a greater effort not to get caught. Remember the days when policemen were routinely murdered to avoid being caught, thankfully not as big a problem these days.

But the lack of any police presence in our communities is the prime cause of many of our current problems. My own small town is served by a police station miles away, despite having a modern former sub divisional HQ smack in the centre of it, which now houses toilet rolls in the cells and nothing but admin clerks.

If someone is locked up the nearest cells are in Sheffield, so there is a reason for cops not to arrest as they would wait ages to get into custody.

As I type there are trials bikes flying around on a public football field opposite my house, no helmets, two and three up, damaging the turf, not a cop in sight. Nothing to stop them, Nada, niet no one.

I'm told the officers are all dealing with other matters, far more serious than this. Which is frankly horse apples! They are dealing with the mountain of malicious, made up and downright pathetic troubles of the social media generation, all of which are labelled as hate crimes.

Facebook, snap chat and a host of other sites generate enough "he said, she said" rubbish to keep any force busy. School children take up time because teachers cannot control them in class.

Domestic disputes generate enquiries which take up many hours of work, only for the couple to kiss and make up after the requisite cooling off period. Dont get me wrong these can turn nasty, but the majority are just poor relationships staggering along for fear of being single and alone.

You can probably tell I'm an ex copper, brought up in the 80s when all I had was a stick, some cuffs and a note pad. Now they have body armour, cs gas, tasers, steel batons etc.etc. but still they are ineffective in many ways.

If I dial 101 i can wait for ever for an answer, and then only get a crime number or advice. Dealt with without deployment is the stock term. Last time I dialled 999 two disinterested officers ambled toward a group of youths who were fighting, then running off. They never tried to get to them let alone speak to anyone, just chase them off to be someone elses problem.

Get more cops on the streets where they belong , out of police cars and talking to the public, reassuring communities and deterring crime in equal measure.

Sorry turned into a bit of a rant that one.

I'm getting grumpy in my old age.

Best regards Mick

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