Should I begin with mild steel on lathe?

[Chris TickTockParticipant @christicktock]

I have been looking at my local metal supplier's online site they supply mild steel in black and bright form can anyone help state the difference and would this not be up to EN1A standard as I see no such designation/

chris

[EmgeeParticipant @emgee]

You may have to get it from an on-line supplier by post, black and/or bright mild steel are not a good place to start machining steel, as many said EN1A or with EN1APb would provide an introduction.

Emgee

Edited By Emgee on 16/08/2019 12:41:50

[LainchyParticipant @lainchy]

Have a look on eBay – or **LINK**

I found a world of difference when I went from a local supplier to a good EN1a source.

I've just discovered Mallard and they are very reasonable.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

ENIA can come in both bright and black forms but if your supplier does not state the exact metal spec then goe elsewhere or ask. For practice get bright.

Bright bar is also known as cold rolled which means it goes through the shaping and sizing cold and the scale drops off. Black is known as hot rolled so shaped hot and a scale that is "black" forms as it cools. Bright can has some stresses in it but for turning don;t worry about that now.

[Chris TickTockParticipant @christicktock]

Thanks Guys the consensus is if it don't state EN1A go elsewhere.

Chris

[Chris TickTockParticipant @christicktock]

Posted by Lainchy on 16/08/2019 12:47:14:

Have a look on eBay – or **LINK**

I found a world of difference when I went from a local supplier to a good EN1a source.

I've just discovered Mallard and they are very reasonable.

Great LINK thanks Lainchy

Chris

[Chris TickTockParticipant @christicktock]

Posted by JasonB on 16/08/2019 13:34:06:

ENIA can come in both bright and black forms but if your supplier does not state the exact metal spec then goe elsewhere or ask. For practice get bright.

Bright bar is also known as cold rolled which means it goes through the shaping and sizing cold and the scale drops off. Black is known as hot rolled so shaped hot and a scale that is "black" forms as it cools. Bright can has some stresses in it but for turning don;t worry about that now.

Thanks Jason I have picked up on the stresses but does this apply as well to the EN1A graded stuff as well as the ungraded bright?

chris

[AdrianRParticipant @adrianr18614]

Christopher,

Re the inserts for aluminium. The main difference is that the surface is polished smooth instead of being just the sintered rough finish. Aluminium has a habit of welding itself to the cutting tool tip, this effectively makes the tool blunt till it is scraped off. The rough surface of **M* inserts makes it happen a lot faster than the smooth surface of the **G* inserts. The **G* inserts can be used on ferrous materials and may produce a better finish as they can be sharper.

I would still keep using the **M* inserts for general ferrous turning as they are cheaper, keep the **G* for finish cuts and Aluminium.

I did not see it mentioned in the thread, but EN specifications are the "old fashioned" names. You may also see the steel quoted as.

Free cutting EN1A = 230M07

Leaded free cutting EN1APb = 230M07Pb

Mild Steel EN3b = 070M20

There are lots of others, this is a good intro then just to scare you the European BS EN

Adrian

[Chris TickTockParticipant @christicktock]

Posted by AdrianR on 16/08/2019 14:46:09:

Christopher,

Re the inserts for aluminium. The main difference is that the surface is polished smooth instead of being just the sintered rough finish. Aluminium has a habit of welding itself to the cutting tool tip, this effectively makes the tool blunt till it is scraped off. The rough surface of **M* inserts makes it happen a lot faster than the smooth surface of the **G* inserts. The **G* inserts can be used on ferrous materials and may produce a better finish as they can be sharper.

I would still keep using the **M* inserts for general ferrous turning as they are cheaper, keep the **G* for finish cuts and Aluminium.

I did not see it mentioned in the thread, but EN specifications are the "old fashioned" names. You may also see the steel quoted as.

Free cutting EN1A = 230M07

Leaded free cutting EN1APb = 230M07Pb

Mild Steel EN3b = 070M20

There are lots of others, this is a good intro then just to scare you the European BS EN

Adrian

Thanks Adrian good reply will digest it slowly. I am obviously still a bit confused as I though silver steel was a high carbon steel yet when I just went on a metal suppliers site they offer separately silver steel and carbon steel…anyone help with this?

Chris

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Stresses will generally be the same for all grades between black and bright.

Silver steel is a specific type of carbon steel, having a certain composition, carbon percentage and ground finish. There are many other steels with different cabon contents and usually drawn or black finishes.

If you look at the price list from M-machine that Adrian took his link from and go down to about page 20 you will see that this supplier states the type and finish of their various steels so you know what you should be getting.

If you want to post the link to your local supplier I'm sure we can point you to what you need.

 

Edited By JasonB on 16/08/2019 15:11:12

[Clive Brown 1Participant @clivebrown1]

Silver steel is high carbon, ~1% + chromium. As such it can be heat-treated to a very high hardness level and is useful for metal cutting tools, punches etc. etc Often supplied in accurately ground diameters.

"Carbon steel" is a fairly general term, often for steels of higher strength than mild steel. The carbon content is higher than that of mild steel and would be chosen to meet the design requirements. Carbon steels above about 0.3%C can be hardened by heat treatment .

Mild steel is ~0.1% C and cannot be hardened

The term is also sometimes used for non-stainless steel.

[Chris TickTockParticipant @christicktock]

Posted by JasonB on 16/08/2019 15:05:42:

Stresses will generally be the same for all grades between black and bright.

Silver steel is a specific type of carbon steel, having a certain composition, carbon percentage and ground finish. There are many other steels with different cabon contents and usually drawn or black finishes.

If you look at the price list from M-machine that Adrian took his link from and go down to about page 20 you will see that this supplier states the type and finish of their various steels so you know what you should be getting.

If you want to post the link to your local supplier I'm sure we can point you to what you need.

Thanks Jason my local supplier only states black and bright and is none responsive. I have emailed my order to the Link kindly given and think all is well as at the moment it is solely for EN1A.. However i could do with a hand getting the right holder with the insert recomended. I think I will be working with right handed tools and I guess that also applies to inserts.

Regards

chris

Edited By JasonB on 16/08/2019 15:11:12

[Chris TickTockParticipant @christicktock]

looking on the JB website trying to figure out what holder to get for the0.2 radius 6mm cutter suggested I am greated by jargon that is over my head.

SCBCR,SCBCL,SCLCR, ETC any one care to decypher?

regards

Chris

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

The right hand holder is the most versatile and the same can be said of the CC** shaped inserts so any 6mm shank (don't really come in imperial) SCLCR holder will work as well as the JB cutting tools one linked to earlier you could try one from Glanze or ARC as they are all of a resonable quality for a reasonable price.

If you drop down the JB tools page you will see the CCGT inserts listed or these are reasonable quality in packs of two.

These inserts are not handed, they will fit left, right & neutral holders as well as boring bars. One holder will take all tip radius inserts of the same basic shape

Edited By JasonB on 16/08/2019 15:33:37

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

The SCLCR code is

S Screw to retain insert

C Shape of insert

L Holder shape

C matches relief angle of insert

R Right Hand

You then get 06 06 which is a square 6mm x 6mm shank

Then say 100 which is the length of the tool.

Note the Glanze site uses the same ISO code for an 8mm shank holder for all their cutters

Further homework here

[Chris TickTockParticipant @christicktock]

Posted by JasonB on 16/08/2019 15:40:04:

The SCLCR code is

S Screw to retain insert

C Shape of insert

L Holder shape

C matches relief angle of insert

R Right Hand

You then get 06 06 which is a square 6mm x 6mm shank

Then say 100 which is the length of the tool.

Note the Glanze site uses the same ISO code for an 8mm shank holder for all their cutters

Further homework here

Jason you've done this before.

Regards

Chris

[Steve CrowParticipant @stevecrow46066]

If you have a look on the JB website there is a link called"Applications for toolholders" This will help you visualize the various types and what they can be used for.

I find the SDJCR type useful for smaller stuff.

I have no connection to the company, It was recommended to me on this forum and I found the quality and service to be excellent.

Incidentally, what workholding method are you using on the Sherline? Collets or chucks? It has no bearing on your question, just curious.

Steve

[Chris TickTockParticipant @christicktock]

Posted by Steve Crow on 16/08/2019 16:49:22:

If you have a look on the JB website there is a link called"Applications for toolholders" This will help you visualize the various types and what they can be used for.

I find the SDJCR type useful for smaller stuff.

I have no connection to the company, It was recommended to me on this forum and I found the quality and service to be excellent.

Incidentally, what workholding method are you using on the Sherline? Collets or chucks? It has no bearing on your question, just curious.

Steve

As I have little experience it would be silly of me yet to say I plan to use a given method. However I have 4 jaw and 3 jaw chucks also collets. As I understand things certain sizes / shapes require one or other I will find where one or another is needed. Any pointers always gratefully received.

Chris

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