Shell CY2 oil for Centec Vertical head

[Geoff HelliwellParticipant @geoffhelliwell15304]

I have a Centec 2A with a quill type vertical head. I have been researching which oil I should use and the original instructions say Shell CY2. Is this still available? Or if not, what is a modern equivalent?

Many thanks for any assistance.

[Geoff HelliwellParticipant @geoffhelliwell15304]

Is Shell CY2 availability or modern equivalent

[AndyBParticipant @andyb47186]

Hi Geoff,

I have just got a 2A, picked it up yesterday.

I am also trying to find what Shell CY2 is and can't find any reference to it or an equivalent!

Have you taken the knee off? If you have, how does it come off please?

Thanks

Andy

[AndyBParticipant @andyb47186]

Hi Geoff,

I have just found a reference to Shell CY2 as an engine oil for Lister Diesel stationary engines in tropical climates back in the 30's.

The modern equivalent is Shell Vitrea 100.

Oh, and I found a reference on how to remove the knee…it goes up and off the top of the dovetails.

Andy

Edited By Andy Belcher on 18/03/2012 20:49:27

[Jim GuthrieParticipant @jimguthrie82658]

Posted by Andy Belcher on 18/03/2012 20:34:13:

Oh, and I found a reference on how to remove the knee…it goes up and off the top of the dovetails.

Andy,

You don't need to lift it off the top of the slides, just loosen off the gib screws and take the gib out and it will pull straight off the slides to the front. The gib is quite thick which means that the gap in the knee way is greater than the width of the top of the slides.

Jim.

[AndyBParticipant @andyb47186]

Thanks Jim,

That will save a lot of work!

I have got a lot of setting up to do as it is part refurbished.

If you would not mind helping a bit further;

What size pulley is on your motor? I have got a 1425 rev motor to go on it.

What oil do you use in the gearbox?

I have got the Mk II vertical head; what holds the spindle in the horizontal section? Mine just slides out towards the vertical head with nothing on the pulley end to retain it. Is it just the VH gear that holds it in place? But then there is nothing to tighten the bearings. I have not looked too far into it yet but I would have thought there should be retaining rings both ends.

Thank you very much for your time

Andy

Edited By Andy Belcher on 19/03/2012 10:10:46

[Jim GuthrieParticipant @jimguthrie82658]

Posted by Andy Belcher on 19/03/2012 10:07:35:

Thanks Jim,

That will save a lot of work!

I have got a lot of setting up to do as it is part refurbished.

If you would not mind helping a bit further;

What size pulley is on your motor? I have got a 1425 rev motor to go on it.

What oil do you use in the gearbox?

I have got the Mk II vertical head; what holds the spindle in the horizontal section? Mine just slides out towards the vertical head with nothing on the pulley end to retain it. Is it just the VH gear that holds it in place? But then there is nothing to tighten the bearings. I have not looked too far into it yet but I would have thought there should be retaining rings both ends.

Thank you very much for your time

Andy

Edited By Andy Belcher on 19/03/2012 10:10:46

Andy,

I've just popped out to the workshop to check out your questions.

 

In the size of the motor pulley, I can't be of much help. My motor is sitiated in the top of the stand and you can't see the back of it where the pulley is. I felt round the back and a rather inccurate measurement might be four fingers width of diameter. To get an accurate measurement I would have to strip the motor out and I'm not to keen to do that at the oment.

On the horizontal shaft, mine is retained in position at the rear by the drive pulley for the vertical head and two nuts. I've posted a couple of pictures to my web space to show what's there. The first shows the pulley and nuts in close up. http://www.sprockets.myzen.co.uk/Centec01.jpg The next shows a wider shot with the pulley and belt tensioner on the vertical head being shown. http://www.sprockets.myzen.co.uk/Centec02.jpg

For oil, I use what I use on my lathe head bearings – which is probably a bit light for the gearbox and gears in the vertical head. I reckon a heavier grade gear oil would probably be better and could reduce the leaks from the bottom of the quill on vertical head.

Jim

Edited By Jim Guthrie on 19/03/2012 17:26:51

Edited By Jim Guthrie on 19/03/2012 17:28:32

[AndyBParticipant @andyb47186]

Hi Jim,

Thank you very much, that is very kind of you.

Four fingers will do nicely as a pulley size…Kitkat size haha!

Andy

[Geoff HelliwellParticipant @geoffhelliwell15304]

Whilst this thread is getting lots of attention, does anyone have experience of replacing the oil seal on the quill of a Centec 2A head? Mine leaks quite badly but I am not sure whether just fitting a new seal will do any good. I am wondering whether there might be a worn area on the spindle that will result in a poor seal.

Does anyone have any experience/advice?

Geoff

[Another JohnSParticipant @anotherjohns]

Geoff;

I, too, have been wondering about that seal. Mine leaks a bit; enough to give you "artwork" on workshop clothes.

I use a standard hydraulic oil on my Centec. Apologies, the big container is outside, and I have not seen it since winter set in, but it is what people suggest for gear head lathes.

My vertical head (quill travel one) also leaks oil; what I do is to take any oil that has dripped down, and manually wipe it on the table ways. I squirt a bit of oil into the vertical head oil dipstick hole, knowing that it'll all eventually leak out.

I figure I'm not doing industrial work here, so if lubrication is not 110%, it's not much to matter about.

Another JohnS.

[Geoff HelliwellParticipant @geoffhelliwell15304]

John

Thank you for your response. I am no expert on hydraulic oil but I understand that brake fluid can be very nasty indeed if it gets in your eyes and I wonder whether your oil might be something to be concerned about? As I say, I claim no special knowledge so someone else may be able to offer a better informed opinion?

Geoff

[Another JohnSParticipant @anotherjohns]

Hi Geoff;

Possibly a difference of terminology (I’m in Canada) but, no, not brake fluid.

If you go to http://www.princessauto.com and search for “hydraulic oil” you’ll find it. It’s the stuff that makes all the bits move on a “JCB”, so is good for lubricating the hydraulic gear pumps, and whatever. It’s non-detergent, non this, non that, just as simple an oil as one can get (as far as I understand it)

Another JohnS.

[AndyBParticipant @andyb47186]

Hi chaps,

Thanks to you Jim, the old girl is almost ready to make chips…

I would say that, although a good lubricant, hydraulic fluid is the reason for the leaks. It is very thin, often around SAE 30. The original oil specified is very thick, SAE 60 to 80.

I have one more question; what is the diameter of the bearing pin at the end of the horizontal arbor, the bit that sits in the drop bracket please?

Mine, although with not much wear, has been knocked about a bit. The pin measures an accurate 12mm all along its length which seems strange as everything else is in Imperial. The bush bearing is a fair bit larger. I can fix it no problem; plug, drill and ream a new hole, but if the pin has been reduced I would rather put a collar on it to the bearing size in case another arbor comes available.

Andy

[Geoff HelliwellParticipant @geoffhelliwell15304]

Hi Andy

The pin on the end of my horizontal arbour is half inch diameter. Mine is also knocked about a bit but I believe it to be the original.

What do you reckon on the oil seal? Would a new one solve the problem or make matters worse?

Cheers

Geoff

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Sounds like Castrol Magna BD68 is a good candidate for the Centec head. It's an ISO 68 oil specified for nominal ambient temperature operation on bearings, plain or roller, and slideways. So it hangs around a bit better than a simple "oily oil"(!?) but will put up with gear tooth shearing loads which some of the pure slideway oils wont. I use it for all my slideway and heavy oil machine tool duties, eg feed screws. Squirt it on change gears and it strings most impressively but still wipes clean. Castrol Hyspin AWS 32, a hydraulic oil, does me fine for headstock bearings and other light oil duties. RS components stock both so its easy enough to get.

Clive

[AndyBParticipant @andyb47186]

Hi and thank you all and particularly, this time, Geoff,

Thank you for the pin size; I will think before cutting anything…

My vertical head, MkII, does not seem to have an oil seal, unless it is above the bearing.

What I have at the top bearing is a labyrinth seal, which I also have on the horizontal shaft; that is to say, three rings cut in the shaft where it close fits the cover plate.

I am reliably informed that this seal works very well for thicker oils which led me to mention about the thin hydraulic oil.

I have found the modern equivalent to the specified Shell CY2 which is, as I mentioned earlier, Shell Vitrea 100. It is thick and gloopy, if you will pardon the technical term

Before stripping your VH, I would try the proper oil. If it still leaks, then do the head and all you have lost is a bit of oil.

Andy

[Jim GuthrieParticipant @jimguthrie82658]

Posted by Andy Belcher on 27/03/2012 21:56:31:

Before stripping your VH, I would try the proper oil. If it still leaks, then do the head and all you have lost is a bit of oil.

The previous owner of my Centec warned me of its tendency to leak from the lower bearing of the vertical head – normally depositing the oil in a horizontal line across the user's anatomy when the machine was in use. I don't know if he meant just the machine I now own, or whether that applied to all Centec vertical heads, but I got the impression that it was a general Centec fault. I shall try the thicker oils mentioned in earlier messages to see if I can cut down the leakage. My machine doesn't get very heavy use at the moment so the leakage isn't a major problem.

Jim.

[AndyBParticipant @andyb47186]

Hi chaps,

My old girl is all up and running, both horizontal and vertical. I am very pleased with her. I was a bit worried about the amount of space available under the cutters but there is loads of room for what I want.

I have put a thick gear oil in and it leaks a little…like you all said! Haha!

I found that oil seal you talk about. What is it? I haven't tried to dig it out in case it leaks worse but it would be handy to know what type and size it is for future reference.

Is it just an O Ring? Or is it metal-backed?

Andy

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

Try Tony Griffiths at lathes.co.uk, he should be able to help (and sell you a seal+?

[AndyBParticipant @andyb47186]

Hi Kwil and all,

I have emailed Tony and will let you know what he says about the seal. Mine is definitely bad as some serious cuts had it come out in great gloops! It probably also points to me not setting the bearings correctly; how tight do you adjust them?

Andy

[AndyBParticipant @andyb47186]

Hi all,

Nothing heard from Tony.

I have bitten the bullet as the oil fell out of the VH faster than I could get it in and SWMBO got shirty about the lines of oil across my shirts!

**LINK**

Absolutely marvelous! Not a drop of oil anywhere outside! And, yes, I did refill it!

Now how do you get the link anchor to say Oil Seals instead of link?

Best wishes

Andy

Edited By Andy Belcher on 17/07/2012 20:30:40

[Another JohnSParticipant @anotherjohns]

Andy;

Thank you very much for this seal information.

Was it easy to change? How did you go about changing it?

I've got to schedule work on my Centec 2B; the drive pulley on the quill head (i have discovered) is able to turn 1/4 turn without moving the spindle – hoping all it is is that the aluminium pulley needs re-keying.

Another JohnS.

[David LittlewoodParticipant @davidlittlewood51847]

I use Smith & Allan T68 Hydraulic Oil in the screwcutting gearbox of my M300, and the lighter T32 in the Myford gearbox. Seems as good as anything.

**LINK**

Good price and very fast delivery.

David

Edited By David Littlewood on 18/07/2012 14:53:13

[AndyBParticipant @andyb47186]

Hi John,

I think that my experience won't help you; I have got a 2A with the MKII VH without quill feed; just take off the bottom ring and knock the old seal out from behind.

You appear to have the quill feed (with a 2B) and that is a different kettle of fish. I'm afraid I can't help.

Go to the Centec forum; a chap there has photographed hi MKIII head in bits and drawn up a plan of it too: **LINK**

[Another JohnSParticipant @anotherjohns]

Go to the Centec forum; a chap there has photographed hi MKIII head in bits and drawn up a plan of it too: **LINK**

Hi Andy; I did go through those pictures, and have posted a message to the list. Just waiting for the moderator to send it through.

Thanks;

Another JohnS.

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