security Wheel bolts

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

Today a friend rolls up with a small VW car and tries to explain that he cannot get a wheel securing bolt to undo. He showed me the security stud that fits over the bolt and it is obvious that the device is damaged and the scrolling inside has been overturned by using a hammer type wheel nut extractor.

What can he do to get the bolt out of the wheel hub, my first thought was to progressively drill in the center until the bolt diameter is reached and the wheel rim will pop off.

All ideas considered.

Clive

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

If it is the rotating sleeve type I have heard that hammering a socket over the sleeve can crush it enough to give enough grip to undo it. (Probably best not to use your best Snap On socket)

Mike

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

**LINK**

… LOOKS easy

MichaelG.

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

If there's a rotating collar, you need to chisel it off.

Then, you might undo it by hammering a socket over the remaining bolt.

You can buy sockets with a left hand thread to do this, but I find my set of six rarely have a suitable size.

You could try drilling them, but they are supposed to be hardened.

A die grinder will remove the head, but you do need to be careful of the wheel.

If there's room. welding a decent sized nut onto the bolt head might work.

You probably noticed a lot of mights!

Undo them all, and replace with standard bolts.

[V8EngParticipant @v8eng]

Just out of curiosity, has he asked a VW Service Dept for advice? They probably had to do this before, my one seems helpful.

Edited By V8Eng on 09/09/2016 22:26:13

Edited By V8Eng on 09/09/2016 22:31:05

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

Posted by V8Eng on 09/09/2016 22:25:05:

Just out of curiosity, has he asked a VW Service Dept for advice? They probably had to do this before, my one seems helpful.

As will any garage that's been in business since before today.

[Steven VineParticipant @stevenvine79904]

Hi Clive

To save the guessing the type, have you got a picture of said bolt, or do you know the make of said bolt for sure?

Steve

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Not very secure then are they. As usual, locks only keep honest people out.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Double boost has a vid on this problem. May be a nut, not a bolt.

Better than most vids on the subject.

There are people who offer a mobile service for removal.

Don't ditch your security bolts. Having to get one removed is far cheaper than buying a complete set of new wheels!

If five stud/bolt wheels, then think a bit and torque that particular fixing to the low side of spec (not recommended on 3 bolt/stud wheels! ). Also do make use of copper-ease or similar.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Read MEW about making an new one to fit but you will need a CNC

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

I did mention going to the local VW agency and his reply was, 'They charge 100's per hour' so I did not pursue that path. The bolt is recessed into an alu. wheel so not possible to use any cutting gear except drill, that is why I ask here. Possible to weld an extension to the bolt and I will talk to him again this morning.

I assume that they are hardened, so did not want to do this jobbv for him. Sadly this is the second time he has had a. 'Too tight' problem. The last one was an oil filter which would not undo, I dont think he got it off before selling the car!

Clive

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

The U Tube video was interesting, I will get him to contact McGard UK. and go from there. It seems a free kit is available to do this job.

Clive

[stewart woodParticipant @stewartwood82335]

Most garages have the tool for doing this job if its a wheel locking nut , its about £50 to remove and replace with a new standard bolt . The tool they use is destroyed in the process i think , and the kit with all you need to do the job is around £ 300 . I have seen in a cars pares shop a tool to do this , think it screws over the bolt left hand but the guy said because of restricted space not much use most of the time Stewart

[Involute CurveParticipant @involutecurve]

I have a mate does this all the time, he repairs and powder coats wheels, he uses an adapted impact driver the one with the worm drive, he has a copper insert that fits inside an old impact socket, one or two clouts with a lump hammer does the trick, he hits it hard though……

[J HancockParticipant @jhancock95746]

It is always worth rememembering the original cause of this happening, over tightening.

I will bet it was the man with the 'windy-gun' with torque settings far too high.

It will happen again , so the only solution is to remove the security bolts before it goes into a 'garage'.

Fit the standard ones in place of them , a pain but a lot less expensive in the long run.

Yes, it has happened to me.

Once you get that ring off you should be able to find 'someone', or even buy, the special socket ( e-bay) that reverse grips the stud to undo it , slow , irresistable force applied should do it.

Just hope you don't get a puncture in the meantime !

[Chris Evans 6Participant @chrisevans6]

Agreed VW garage prices are high. 8 years ago my wife's VW Golf was towed in to a local agent, the fix was charged at £85 plus vat per hour. We ran two VW cars a Golf and a Passat estate both nice to drive but the most unreliable and expensive cars we have ever owned. The Golf was the worst only managing 4000 miles in the first two years as the rest of the time she drove a loan car whilst the latest problem was sorted out.

[peak4Participant @peak4]

Sealey, amongst others, do a 1/2" drive socket with a coarse left hand thread inside it, rather than the normal hexagon flats.

Try ebay and search for "Locking Wheel Nut Remover" to get some photos

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

Also remember never to use a wheel cleaning product that is corrosive, that and the windy gun are lethal. If my car goes to a garage (my tyre fitter uses a torque wrench), I always back the bolts off and re-torque to the correct specification.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I once made a lobed extractor my milling it from a cylinder – 'single use only'. The ones with a sinuous raised strip are what Marcus Bowman made using CNC.

I also go one off by drilling it out over a period of about an hour in shifts with my stepson (whose car it was) using a masonry bit. The first bolt extractor snapped so drilled again for next size up and eventually got it off.

Neil

[Steven VineParticipant @stevenvine79904]

You mentioned Mcgard. Here's a Mcgard I did. A bit of lathe work and lots of heat was involved. If it is the same type then this method will cost pence. I also had to do the Peugeot security bolts when I lost the special socket. Doh.

**LINK**

Steve

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

Ha, ha, i went round and he was hard at it trying to drill but the drill was bouncing off the head. I suggested he get some grinding compound and hammer the removal tool home and then try to undo it. At that i left him to it. Oh, he has a big hammer so thats all right.

Clive

[Old ElanParticipant @oldelan]

McGard are a German firm. Take a good quality picture of the offending nut, send it to them with make and model and in a couple of days you will have a replacement. Seems that make most of the security nuts/bolts for european manufacturers.

What's more, they are not expensive.

http://www.mcgard.de/en/automotive/wheel-locks.html

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

Posted by peak4 on 10/09/2016 10:25:03:

Sealey, amongst others, do a 1/2" drive socket with a coarse left hand thread inside it, rather than the normal hexagon flats.

Try ebay and search for "Locking Wheel Nut Remover" to get some photos

I have a set of six different sizes of those. It's still common to find that the bolt is between sizes, or that the socket won't fit in the deep hole in the wheel. The better bolts tend to be harder than the socket; my success rate is about one in ten.

I have a different set that have a taper that you hammer on to the bolt. My boss supplied us with these, and none of us ever got them to work.

As for retaining the security bolts, in the thirteen years I worked for a recovery company, we had one job for stolen wheels. That was the only time we ever used the multi-fit slave wheels that some smooth talking saleman convinced my boss to buy. Damaged or lost locking wheelnut keys were a daily occurance. None of them are particularly reliable, the ones that use three or four pins to drive the bolt are shockingly bad. I won't have any of them on my cars.

Edited By Nicholas Wheeler 1 on 10/09/2016 16:30:41

[MikeParticipant @mike89748]

A friend's wife found this weird "thing" in the boot of her car and, not knowing what it was, asked the woman next door. She didn't know either, so they threw it away. About a year later my pal and his wife were out in the wife's car on a gale-swept, rainy night where we live in the far north of Scotland, when they had a puncture. You can guess the rest… The one garage prepared to help welded a nut on to the head of the security bolt. It made me replace all of the security bolts on my car with plain bolts. Maybe we're lucky living in a rural community, but I haven't heard of alloy wheels being stolen for well more than 10 years, they're so common these days. What's the experience of people who live in cities?

[Author]

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