Searching for rubber seal

[steamdaveParticipant @steamdave]

I'm looking for some rubber type seal, size about 1" x 1/4" and 1" x 3/8", quite a lot to use as sealing round flood barriers for people's homes in a charitable venture. The seal will be glued to varnished plywood and backed up by screws through into the wood. (At least that is the present idea).

Not really sure what I want, so googling is a bit difficult. Needs to be soft enough to be able to seal against a non-perfect bottom, but not so soft that it tears with repeated possibly careless use.

Neoprene would give a good seal, but not be too hard wearing in this usage. Solid rubber would give the hard wearing characteristic, but would be no good on undulating surfaces. I've even looked at sash window seals, but again, not hard wearing enough for this use.

Your thoughts, gentlemen, Please.

Dave
The Emerald Isle

[steamdaveParticipant @steamdave]

Seal for personal flood defences

[Bob Brown 1Participant @bobbrown1]

have a look here **LINK**

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

I've used rubber/ plastic tube for a similar job.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Is the 1 in width to allow for missalignment? I think even neoprene foam would need a lot of force to seal that wide so would want to be bearing against a thin lip like a 2mm wire to have any chance of a seal. Neoplrene foam is very strong and used in eg trunk and inspection box lid seals works very well.

If it is butting against something like a gloss painted door frame 1/4×1/8 secondary double glazing self adhesive foam would be best and regarded as one time use. This is available in very compliant plastic foam and firmer rubber versions. For air brick covers it would need wider but thicker (ie 3 layers) to take up the very rough brick facing.

Nest option but rather expensive woulld be the link Bob gave and think along the lines of how a car door seals.

[Swarf, Mostly!Participant @swarfmostly]

Hi there, Dave,

Have you considered using a fluid-filled flexible tube as a seal? Something like a bicycle inner tube filled with water.

Best regards,

Swarf, Mostly!

[steamdaveParticipant @steamdave]

Firstly, thanks for the replies.

To elaborate. I will be using 3/4" marine ply initially, but later may drop to 1/2" thickness because of weight. Panels are about 32" square. I need the seals on 2 vertical faces and across the bottom, which is the undulating part – where it seals to, not my cutting of the ply! The edges of the ply are bound with ali angle to prevent damage to the end grain. The panels slide in ali channels on each side of the door frame.

Any ex RN or MN types out there? The seals for manual closing watertight doors was the initial thought, but I can't remember the specs for it. It was reasonably bungy, but still quite hard wearing.

Bob: I'll search through the link, but looks promising. Perhaps I can get some ideas from there and adapt them.

Gordon: I've considered plastic tubing, but the problem is securing it. Some sort of Selastic is OK, but screws through the tube as the back up will destroy the seal – unless there is a way to secure through only one wall thickness.

Bazyle: 1" is the width, but it could go down to 3/4". Not to do with misalignment – that's the thickness's job. Have thought about draft excluder type stuff, but these barriers are slide in when flood threat is imminent and slide out and stored at all other times.

S,M! Bicycle inner tubes, empty, have been considered, but were dismissed because of trying to keep them straight and likely poor lifespan in use.

Dave
The Emerald Isle

[Bob Brown 1Participant @bobbrown1]

You may want to consider the force the water will exert on the board 2.31 ft head of water is 1 psi so probably better sticking with 3/4". Marine ply may be a bit of over kill WPB should be fine and a lot cheaper.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

What about self adhesive EPDM, comes in various width/thicknesses and has a pressure sensitive adhesive on one side to fix to your ply. Basically a high density foam so will conform to your door frames.

 

Edited By JasonB on 16/06/2014 18:24:46

[frank brownParticipant @frankbrown22225]

Reading your description, I think the side seals will be a problem. As the panel are 32" high, putting them into their ali channel frame, will mean that the bottom edge of the side seal has to rub along 32" of the channel before the panel "homes". This could be ameliorated by making the panels (and ali side angles), tapered, so the side seals are free, until the last 1" of movement.. A good dollop of silicon grease could help.

My initial thoughts is to have an angle frame which is open to the front (flats on side). The panels will have a purpose made hook on top at each side, so the panel is hooked over the flanges of the angle. The will be two overcentre toggle clamps on the bottom of each side that will pull the panel up tight to the ali. So it will be a face to face seal at the sides and a sort of bodgy wiping seal on the bottom.

Frank

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Don't forget they need to fit self-sealing airbricks as well!

Or these are cheap: Flood Sentry but can't be left in position.

Neil

[Dave ShieldParticipant @daveshield21426]

Try sealsplusdirect.co.com.

I have used them many times and received good service

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

I don't think sliding the panels down a channel is a good idea, just have them pressed against a flat surface. Seals can be glued in place. Tube seal could be split , screw inserted and slit glued close, but should not be needed if the screw is sealed. 1/2" ply will be enough in those sizes, if worried fix a couple of battens to stiffen the panel. Best and easiest way to fix the panels is to have studs in the frame and nuts to hold panel on and compressed. One we used to have just had the seal, rubber pipe, put in position loosely round the studs and the the board clamped up. I know you need easy fitting but may give you a few ideas.

[John McNamaraParticipant @johnmcnamara74883]

 

Hi All

Gee the thought of regular flooding, is worrying.

I agree re sliding the panels in the frame is possibly problematic, if the barrier is fitted within the slots in a sash window or across a doorway against the door stops there is little bearing area for the seal to work against, and even less at the bottom. one way that might increase the width of the seal is to place the board across the face of the opening, The seals could be made wider and placed on the face of the board against the surface to be sealed. At the bottom a waterproof textile hinged (timber) flap with a rubber seal retained by brackets temporarily bolted to retain 90 degrees (or the angle of the step if a doorway) may be needed for doorways.

Obviously other means of retaining the barrier would be needed maybe temporary timber lathes fitted on the opposite side of the opening with bolts holding the flood barrier attached to them as suggested by Gordon W would work.

Or even simple slide bolts slid into pre drilled holes in the frame or masonry. These holes could be drilled, brass bushed and epoxied in place, after painting they would be fairly inconspicuous, particularly if done evenly and neatly.

On source of fairly inexpensive sealing material might be the closed cell foam used at the edge of concrete pours between the concrete and walls. a permanent barrier to stop the concrete from exerting any forces on the wall. It is available in various widths and some varieties are self adhesive. It is not particularly strong but with a little care it would work OK.

It is quite inexpensive. huge quantities of it are used in construction.

It would be worth contacting various manufacturers of this material they may have other options. **LINK**

Regards
John

Edited By John McNamara on 17/06/2014 14:33:41

[steamdaveParticipant @steamdave]

Further elaboration: The 3/4" panels slide into channels that are a nominal 2" inside width. The channels are secured to the doorframes and remain in place. (and are relatively unobtrusive and do not impede access/egress from the building. The panels with ali trim and say, 1/2" thick seal have plenty of room to slide in and out. To prevent them floating upwards before the water pressure creates a seal, two thumb screws hold the panels in place. Water pressure is not an issue to the frames due to how/where they are secured. It is the inside edge of the channel that bears against the doorframe that takes the pressure, thus, no loading on it.

Jason: Another good suggestion. Will look at it closely later.

Neil: Air bricks? Not on the premises we are looking at, but a good point nevertheless.

John: Regular flooding is a perennial problem in West Cork towns. Cork city had a seal swimming in one of the main shopping streets during the last winter floods!

Dave
The Emerald Isle

[Bob Brown 1Participant @bobbrown1]

It's a similar problem in Cowes with spring tides with the wind behind it and in my youth have rowed a boat up the high streets of both East and West Cowes.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

3/4" ply seems like overkill to me – having sailed in dinghies made of 1/4" ply that took a much bigger battering than a flood board ever will!

Neil

[Bob Brown 1Participant @bobbrown1]

Sailing dinghy hulls have a shape to them other wise they'd just be a box with sails, plus chines, the keel and gunwales all add strength. I used to race a cherub in my younger days on the Solent, even won on the odd occasion.

If the ply is too thin and flexes due to the pressure of the water it could cause it to move away from the wall and allow the water in.

[WorkshopPeteParticipant @workshoppete]

Hi Dave

At one time I worked for a company who made and serviced hatch covers and ship bow doors some what larger than your project. The seal material we used was closed cell neoprene with a solid rubber surface we obtained them from a company in Wallsend Tyne and Wear in various sections the seal was held into a channel with Black Bostic if memory serves me correctly the smallest section we used was 40 x 25 mm for landing craft doors. The material was similar in construction to wet suit material but a lot harder.

I hope this helps

Peter

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

> just be a box with sails

You've sailed ina Mirror Dinghy then

It would be interesting to experiment, but I'm sure 1/2" ply would be ample, and would save nearly 30% on storage space and weight.

Neil

[Bob Brown 1Participant @bobbrown1]

"Mirror" Dinghy not a chance too slow!, 505's, Cherub, Flying 15, Dragon, and X boats amongst others

[steamdaveParticipant @steamdave]

Peter: That's the stuff I was thinking about. Thanks

Bob: You've missed out Fireballs. And Hornets – good fun with the sliding seats!

Dave
The Emerald Isle

[WorkshopPeteParticipant @workshoppete]

Hi Dave

I have been trying to think of the company but it has not come back too much grey hair I am afraid. We used to get special corner section made by vulcanising standard sections into some very complex corners. Once a door or hatch cover had been resealed it had to stand the full force of a fire hose for 30 minutes to pass the Lloyds or other insurance inspection.

Peter

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

> "Mirror" Dinghy not a chance too slow!, 505's, Cherub, Flying 15, Dragon, and X boats amongst others

They all sound frightfully modern! All my sailing was in the Sea Scouts pre-1980. Mirrors, a Heron and a Laser. I remember lapping three Mirrors as crew in the Heron on a three-lap handicap in the Heron, my one and only pennant,but then it was my only race, I think!

The best days were out in the Old Harbour, Barry, in a good chop and right out with only your feet in the boat.

Good times

Neil

[Bob Brown 1Participant @bobbrown1]

Modern????

505 1953, Flying 15 was designed by Uffa Fox in 1947, Cherub 1951 Kiwi design, Dragon 1927, and x boats go back pre 1st WW.

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