Replaceable tip tools.

[sparky mikeParticipant @sparkymike]

Looking on that well known auction site for removeable tip lathe tools, I am baffled with choice !! There are so many sets that look identical, but all varying a great deat in cost.

With this in mind, can anyone recommend a decent make that does not cost the earth but does not wear out the first time it is used?

A general consensus would be handy.

Lathe they will be used on is a Boxford, which may well take 12mm. shank tools.

Mike.

[sparky mikeParticipant @sparkymike]

[Anthony KendallParticipant @anthonykendall53479]

Sparky, I use Greenwood Tools – not cheap but good.

[VicParticipant @vic]

J&B or apt

**LINK**

**LINK**

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

JB Cuttingtools, an exhibitor at various Model Engineering Exhibitions, a well respected supplier of tool tips supply their own brand of toolholders at reasonable quality and price.

**LINK**

Edited By JasonB on 12/10/2016 07:21:35

[EmgeeParticipant @emgee]

Mike, check the APT link above to see the various shapes of inserts and the method of retaining in the tool. If you want economy of inserts the triangular shape has 3 cutting edges and in the correct toolholder will face and turn your work. There has been a good deal of dicussion on this group regarding shapes and dimensions of inserts, well worth looking back through the topics pages for more info.

Topic to search in is Insert tip query

Emgee

Edited By Emgee on 11/10/2016 22:43:06

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Most of my holders are Glanze from Chronos which seem perfectly adequate, tips I mostly get from APT now. Also worth a look at ARCs holders which were not about when I bought mine.

The Rhomboid tips can have all 4 corners used with the right holders which is even more economic that triangle shaped ones with only 3 usable corners. If you can standardise on one shape from the beginning as it saves having to keep a whole mix of tips.

[Sam Longley 1Participant @samlongley1]

I will always go to J & B if only because of the time they spent explaining the types I needed to fit my holders & for what materials etc; plus they even wrote down a list of codes with little sketches of what to order next time. Extremely helpful to a beginner like me

The tips they sold me work OK & price seems Ok as well.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

I never use replaceable tips but have seen comment on forums that the ebay 'unknowns' may be of dubious quality and not be as strong and long lasting as the reports by users (above) of reputable sources imply for their tips. Therefore be warned that unless they are specifically branded product that someone has nicked from work they may not be up to scratch. Also used holders might be for obsolete style tips (hence reason fro sale) or may be locking yo in to one supplier of the custom tips.

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

Posted by JasonB on 12/10/2016 07:27:31:

Most of my holders are Glanze from Chronos which seem perfectly adequate, tips I mostly get from APT now. Also worth a look at ARCs holders which were not about when I bought mine.

The Rhomboid tips can have all 4 corners used with the right holders which is even more economic that triangle shaped ones with only 3 usable corners. If you can standardise on one shape from the beginning as it saves having to keep a whole mix of tips.

Agreed, it's much better to stick to a limited range of tip styles and sizes or it becomes an unnecessary expense quite quickly. unfortunately with the much hailed CCMT system you could only use 2 points. But i've found the cranked knife tools from a RDG set with triangular inserts are pretty good and i'm going to stick with them for now.

I Also pay credence to the size of the torx cam screws that come with them because the very small cheaper torx screws have a tendency to wear down the delicate form too quickly. The sumimoto tools from arc seem to demonstrate how their torx screws are much better quality and therefore dont have these problems but they are a bit costly for my purse. Maybe some users will enlighten us on their experience of them. 

But once the screw has "cammed out" it tends to be the death knell of the entire tool short of grinding the head away or sparking it out. 

Michael W

Edited By Michael Walters on 12/10/2016 09:12:27

[Ian PParticipant @ianp]

I have used indexable tools and tips (mostly eBay bargains) on my lathe for about 15 years and never had a problem with the Torx screws. Obviously these small screws are perfect for dropping or losing so I can understand why spares are sold but surely they dont wear out. I doubt Torx can cam-out as I thought that term applied to Philips/Posidrive type fixing.

Ian P

[Chris GunnParticipant @chrisgunn36534]

Mark, I do 95% of my turning with replaceable tip tools on a Bantam, and I have a knife tool with triangular tips, and also a large boring bar using the same tip. I have a chamfering/facing tool using square tips, a small boring bar with small triangular tips, I use the same small tip on a fly cutter on the mill. I have a JB 6mm round button tool for nice radiuses when I need them, and a JB diamond shaped tool to use with a live centre, and a JB tipped parting tool which I use in the rear tool post, and that is it.

The tip holders are all branded, and all use ISO standard tips which are available everywhere. I have never ever had a problem with the Torx screws, but I always blow any dirt or swarf out of the screw head when I change them.

I would always go for used branded tool holders over cheap new ones with non standard tips. I would not buy sets just buy what you need, and check the on line catalogues for extra information.

Chris Gunn

[VicParticipant @vic]

If anyone needs replacement Torx screws look out for the Taiwanese made ones on eBay. They are very nicely made, are 25% of the cost of the ones sold over here and often come with a free flag driver. You need to buy a dozen and wait a week or two for delivery but well worth it.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

The tips I use are the same ones I use on the face cutter on the mill, they are 16 mm triangle type, with no hole, they are held in the tool holder by a bridge piece. I'm of Scottish descent, careful with the cash, so I made my own.

Ian S C

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

That looks like a much more reliable way of holding them Ian, some of the flashier ones come with a similar bridge piece, you can get them in all sorts of sizes too.

I don't blame you for making your own, possibly something i'd want to have a go with too!

I'm not of scottish descent but irish, and therefore not nearly as thrifty as the scots, but then any money that could be spent on a pint instead is probably worth the home makery!

Michael W

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

The steel used for the tool holder is a piece of car half shaft, that was just to see how it went in the lathe, I was very new at lathe work when that was made, The bolt that clamps the bridge is an aircraft spec 10 32 UNF from the junk box, so all I need to remove/replace tips is a 3/8" AF spanner.

Ian S C

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by Michael Walters on 12/10/2016 09:06:07:

expense quite quickly. unfortunately with the much hailed CCMT system you could only use 2 points.

Michael W

Edited By Michael Walters on 12/10/2016 09:12:27

Michael as I said in my post with the right holder you can use all 4 corners, this is a quite commonly available holder which is ideal for roughing, you can alsoi get one for facing.

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

I use 10mm holders on my Boxford and like the triangular inserts with raked tips. The holders are available in sets at pretty low prices but often come with hex drive screws rather than torx. If bought buy some torx screws asap.

I get my tips form APT in boxes of 10 but they do a few in smaller quantities. I'm currently into micro polished ones intended to use on aluminium. I've noticed that coated ones stop working so well once any of it has rubbed off. Recently I noticed that these tips can tend to tear leaded free cutting mild steel. Not sure if this is me, the metal or the tips currently. It was bright drawn and a light cut so could be down to that.

The raked style tips in triangular form don't seem to like taking deep facing cuts and also seem to have a max depth of cut limitation. This seems to be down to the geometry and isn't a problem in practice. I'd use a specially ground HSS tool for removing lots on most materials anyway.

My boxford is fitted with a taller version of the Myford 7 toolpost but the holders are the same. The Boxford ones can take bigger shank cutters. Over 1/2" I believe, more like 5/8". I feel 10mms shanks are plenty big enough but boring bars sometimes benefit from being larger. I have a separate holder for my 16mm bar. For HSS I usually buy 5/16 or even 1/4. I do have some larger sizes for if I need to make a boring tool.

John

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[Douglas JohnstonParticipant @douglasjohnston98463]

As a rule I make my own holders and use the cheap torx screws from abroad. These screws did worry me at first, especially the very small ones, but I have never had one fail in quite a few years of use. One thing to watch is to use the correct size of torx head driver, it is easy to use one size too small and mangle the driver.

As for tips I tend to use the sharp polished ones that are designed for cutting aluminium. These tips are very good on a small lathe with limited power and will cut steel as well as aluminium. You have to be careful with them however as they can chip quite easily.

Doug

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

For CCMT0604 tips, in addition the "standard" holder using the 80 degree corner, there are holders available to use the 100 degree corners. I use this for roughing, using the tips with worn 80 degree corners.

Ideally, such tips should be run at high speed and with the correct feed and depth of cut, but our machines are unlikely to be fast or rigid enough to do this. Never the less, replaceable tips are extremely useful and will cut materials that HSS will not. The red hot wire coming off can be quite entertaining!

Howard

Edited By Howard Lewis on 12/10/2016 20:32:22

[Rik ShawParticipant @rikshaw]

I have a fair assortment of indexable tool holders acquired mostly second hand and one or two new. I have also made some myself. I buy packs of tips of varying types to fit them whenever I can get them cheap (or preferably VERY VERY cheap) from divers sources but I generally stick to buying tips only of the better makes. One advantage with this economy scattergun approach is that whatever the job I always have a tool/tip combination that will get the job done satisfactorily. This method suits me well being easy on the pocket and allowing an amount of healthy (and interesting) experimentation.

Your average production engineer would be aghast with my methods but then he would be probably be equally horrified by some of the procedures he would find on my “production line”. I care not – I get a kick out of a job well done while proving to myself that my running costs do not have to be as painfully expensive as they might otherwise be if I had to pay full whack.

Rik

[sparky mikeParticipant @sparkymike]

Just measured up the shanks on the tools I use on the Boxford and they are 1/2". ,so I assume 12mm. will be as close to that as I will get today? I also have a Super 7 Myford. What is maximum size shank I can use with that ?

Could make sense if I get a set which will suit both lathes.

Thanks for all input so far.

Mike.

[EmgeeParticipant @emgee]

Mike, measure the distance from the bottom of the toolholder to a centre placed in the spindle or tailstock, that is the absolute maximum thickness as most insert type turning tooling has the top surface level with the top of the tool shank, boring tools normally at centre of tool height.

It's easy to pack up a tool to centre but if the cutting tip is too high you would have to remove some material from the bottom of the tool to achieve centre cutting height.

Emgee

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

This tool cuts well, but as it is it is not too satisfactory, I think I'll convert it to a bridge type clamp.

Ian S C

[Nick HulmeParticipant @nickhulme30114]

Posted by Ian S C on 16/10/2016 10:13:40:

This tool cuts well, but as it is it is not too satisfactory, I think I'll convert it to a bridge type clamp.

Would you add a locating peg in place of the screw?

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