Recommend a Small Parts Lathe for £2k.

[John Mitchell 9Participant @johnmitchell9]

Hello,

My company needs a lathe for some prototype work. Custom screws, standoffs – small items mostly. Material – aluminium and steel, including stainless.

We have a budget of approx. £2000. Even though we do some light fabrication this will be our first lathe. So we need to get it right first time.

Our research so far:

Axminster/SIEG SC4 is a strong contender. Right for the money if not over the top for what we need? I've read some comments on here and it looks like a good lathe to buy.

What else is out there that's worth considering?

How's Proxxon PD400? It's a fair bit smaller (which is a bonus as all our space is occupied by other machinery) but it looks well made and exactly the type of lathe I had in mind for turning of small parts. Personally, I like it better than the SC4 on size alone.

What would the board say?

Our main requirements:

– It has to be ready out of the box.

We have plenty of old machinery that we restore and service but we haven't got the time to do another restoration right now.

– It has to be compact.

Big and bulky lathes are out of question as space is an issue for the amount of use our lathe will have. Ideally it would be a machine we could put on a bench when needed and store away when not. A couple of people should be able to lift it.

– *Ideally* we need one with warranty but a second hand lathe with small use can work too. Again, this is for prototyping / small batch work, not a production lathe.

Any ideas are welcome and many thanks for taking the time to read and respone.

J

[John Mitchell 9Participant @johnmitchell9]

[Anonymous]

I'm not going to spark the sterile debate about new far Eastern versus old Uk or US.

I suspect that the choice will be influenced by the threads you need to screwcut. Are they metric, imperial or both? And what range of pitches or tpi? Some smaller far Eastern lathes have a fairly limited range of threads that can be cut out of the box, compared to a more expensive industrial lathe. Of course extra threads can be cut by playing with change gears (possibly involving making extra gears) but presumably you're not equipped to make gears, or want to spend the time doing so?

Andrew

[John Mitchell 9Participant @johnmitchell9]

90% will be metric work, imperial the rest. Can't tell anything about the pitches or tpi but common sizes. COO is not important so long as we end up with a quality lathe (some of our equipment is made in Taiwan and it just works).

Not set of making gears. I suspect we will be doing some light work of cuting and turning and adding tooling as we go. So at this stage it's down to getting a good lathe, that we can expand later on.

[VidarParticipant @vidar]

Is that budget including the various other accessories and tooling you will typically need?

One of the main benefits of getting something used is that there is often lots of accessories and tooling coming along with it. The value of that can be similar to or exceed the value of the machine.

It is also a question about how much time you got. Waiting for the right good condition old machine can take time.

Edit: Ah, you posted the tooling as you as I was typing this

 

Edited By Vidar on 28/11/2019 14:03:37

[Andy CarruthersParticipant @andycarruthers33275]

Presumably you would like manufacturer support therefore a new machine from Warco, Axminster etc rather than a second hand machine

I think Andrew exposed the most salient point – something with a screw-cutting gearbox would be best noting your comment regarding not refurbishing an existing machine which I presume would include not modifying a lathe to add an Electronic Lead Screw as per recent threads on this forum

Your 2 man lift requirement is interesting, my WM180 is just about a one-man lift whereas the WM240 is a 2 man lift so I suspect from the Warco range you are looking at WM250 to WM290 – they have open days where 2nd user machines are available to try before purchase which given your budget may suit your needs

[Roger ClarkParticipant @rogerclark]

Be aware, if you buy what is termed as a 'hobbyist lathe' and use it in a manufacturing environment it might invalidate the warranty! Ask before you buy.

Roger

Edited By Rockingdodge on 28/11/2019 15:50:21

[VicParticipant @vic]

The 920 Lathe has a Norton style screw cutting gearbox.

**LINK**

It has belt change speed adjustment but there is enough money left in your budget to fit an inverter and three phase motor to give you a reliable variable speed lathe.

Or if you can up the budget a little:

https://shop.chesterhobbystore.com/collections/lathes/products/craftsman-lathe

Edited By Vic on 28/11/2019 16:37:29

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

My experience with Proxxon tools is not encouraging.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Don't forget that in industry you will be limited to a 20kg lift for one, 30kg for two man lift. Think instead of a bench on wheels that can be moved out of the way if that is a problem.
All the metric hobby lathes at the moment in the UK have really crap gearboxes trying to compromise with a few metric and few imperial threads. You might get something better off a German source but as most things are governed by the American market I wouldn't bank on it. They will all say they do 200 threads of each kind but in practice that is only with faffing about with extra change wheels.
Having accepted that is won't be a little one to tuck under your arm bite the bullet on space and cost and get an Harrison M300 (no not a 250 because it is smaller but it doesn't have the right gearbox) from a dealer with the necessary tooling. I know, I hate it too when people recommend a SUV when you asked for a runabout but you are talking industry and that puts it in a different world from hobby stuff.

[John Mitchell 9Participant @johnmitchell9]

First of all, thanks everyone who participated. This is a lot to take onboard as it's all new to us. Thread cutting won't be something we'd do right from the start. The worst thing we can use a local engineering firm for this (as we did in the past but have now decided to take small matters into our own hands).

I hate mission creep as much as the next man. By this I mean starting out with a small lathe (that's easy to put on the bottom shelf) idea and ending up with a bulky 3 phase machine we have absolutely no space or need for. Heck, we'll run it for a couple of days and then turn off until a few months later. So sadly a big machine like Harrison M300 is not an option for us. I'd be laid off as soon as that thing is delivered and the lathe will have to come home with me.

By the sound of things, Axminster might be the one we'll go for. If we end up needing something better, I will pitch the Harrison M300 to the management. Thanks again everyone, very helpful!

Edited By John Mitchell 9 on 28/11/2019 19:44:39

Edited By John Mitchell 9 on 28/11/2019 19:45:39

Edited By John Mitchell 9 on 28/11/2019 19:46:09

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

As trade use is likely to invalidate any gaurantee from any hobby supplier why pay extra for it from Axminster, One from Arc will cost less

[VicParticipant @vic]

Single point threading on a machine without a thread cutting gearbox is not a problem for the home hobbyist with plenty of time on his hands. I can’t see it being very popular in a production environment though given the faff of looking up and changing gear wheels etc?

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

OP says it is "not a production lathe"

If you are only going to do a bit of thread cutting now and again a few mins changing the gear train is still going to be quicker than subbing out the job. Even for small batch work you only need to change it for that batch and then back again.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I can say I'm very happy with my SC4, but the relatively high slowest speed (100rpm) might put off someone who isn't used to screwcutting.

Neil

[Martin Hamilton 1Participant @martinhamilton1]

If you are thinking of the SC4 then i would get one from ARC rather than Axminster as they are cheaper for the same machine, also ARC are a very good company to deal with + Ketan from ARC is often on this forum. To answer questions or any problems.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

What is the largest work ( diameter or length ) that the company envisages producing on it?

If you are not going to cut threads bigger than 12mm or 1/2" you can always use Dies and Taps. Probably quicker to set up than change wheels, and screwcutting the thread.

If it is going to be a small lathe, a simple Mandrel Handle will allow the larger threads to cut, and at a lower speed than the machine can provide.

A Norton gearbox will make setting feed rates, easier and quicker than using changewheels.

Howard

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember19781]

[This posting has been removed]

[HollowpointParticipant @hollowpoint]

I don't know why everyone is always quick to recommend new stuff. For small parts a Myford ML10 would be ideal and it will be higher quality than the Chinese stuff.

A £1000 will get you a minter. The spare £1000 will buy you all the accessories you will ever need.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Further to my comment above Axminster do class the SC4 as Trade/Engineer so you will probably get the 3 yrs gaurantee, I thought it started at the SC6 with the SC4 in the hobby range.

One think to watch with any old machines in a business enviroment is that they may not have the current safety features like chuck guards and leadscrew covers etc.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Hollowpoint on 30/11/2019 13:11:12:

I don't know why everyone is always quick to recommend new stuff. For small parts a Myford ML10 would be ideal and it will be higher quality than the Chinese stuff.

A £1000 will get you a minter. The spare £1000 will buy you all the accessories you will ever need.

Just had a quick look on ebay. Admittedly not an ML10, but this Myford has reached £410 after 12 bids and the auction has 2 days to run.

Had a good look at an ML10 when I was looking to move up from a Mini-lathe and wasn't impressed. Decent enough machine but not in the same class as an ML7 or a Super 7.

Even worse, chaps seem keen to pay for the Myford name despite obvious wear and tear. In consequence I feel Myford lathes are generally over-priced for what they are, especially compared with the likes of Boxford. Although ML10 prices used to be more realistic, they've crept up.

One major advantage of buying new is it can be bought now. It's not necessary to find an ML10 for sale, or to confirm it's in good nick, or make an offer. And, in the event the machine is found to be a dud, it's easier to sort out the financial consequences when buying new.

Second-hand Myfords aren't top of my list. Not because I think they're rubbish, it's because they're too popular!

Dave

[HollowpointParticipant @hollowpoint]

The ML7 and super 7 are massively overrated and overpriced. Your photo proves that even rough ones can fetch a good price.

The ML10 on the other hand is much less popular and represents good value for money, they can be had for less than £500 which is about the price of a mini lathe. I don't know what you went to look at but I don't know how you can be unimpressed? Almost every ml10 I've ever seen has been in at least good condition. They where typically used by model engineers rather than industry so most have seen little use. In comparison to a mini lathe its like a Rolls Royce. No plastic covers, no plastic gears, no plastic handwheels a properly ground bed, proper motor and proper chuck. What's not to like? IMO they are actually a bit of a bargain.

I do agree that Boxford lathes beat them all hands down, it just doesn't fit with OP's requirements.

[Another JohnSParticipant @anotherjohns]

Just been using my company's little Sherline lathe.

One thing of note – the thread cutting is by manual turning of the (included) handle. Haven't used it yet, but I'd expect that it would work well; my larger lathe, for the small threads I do, I turn the chuck by hand.

Small, light, fits on a shelf no problem, and it is a well made little machine. Lots of little attachments that can be purchased in future years, budget permitting. (i.e. no need to make your own tooling)

Don't know if it would fit in your budget, though??

Mine is metric feed screws, but the remainder of the lathe is in those "UNC" threads.

An opinion, for what it's worth.

John.

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

For all the stuff I do, I think the Warco WM250V I have now way outclasses the Myford Speed 10 (late type of ML10) in every respect I can think of.

[John Mitchell 9Participant @johnmitchell9]

Posted by Howard Lewis on 29/11/2019 16:22:52:

What is the largest work ( diameter or length ) that the company envisages producing on it?

If you are not going to cut threads bigger than 12mm or 1/2" you can always use Dies and Taps. Probably quicker to set up than change wheels, and screwcutting the thread.

If it is going to be a small lathe, a simple Mandrel Handle will allow the larger threads to cut, and at a lower speed than the machine can provide.

A Norton gearbox will make setting feed rates, easier and quicker than using changewheels.

Howard

 

Howard,

Thanks for your message. Bearing in mind it's only an estimate, I would say 30-50mm? Happy to use taps/dies where application permits of course.

.

.

.

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ALL,

Many thanks for your great input. Buying a lathe is hard work!

Due to difficulty of finding the right lathe to fit the original requirement, we may end up not cutting threads at all. Especially if that calls for an elaborate setup with thread cuttting gearboxes, steady bed etc. which understandbly most of small models seem to lack. Still turning down round parts is what the majoirty of the lathe work we farm out, is. So maybe we simplify the quest to find:

– A decent, yet compact machine that can do turning of parts a joy and not a chore.

– Powerfull enough not to bog down on stainless rods.

– Small enough to fit under a bench when not in use.

– Cleverly designed to be set up and pack up in minutes.

Please share your views. I promise not to drag this any longer as I have to make a decision and place an order early next week due to looming batch of standoffs we need to produce.

So far, SC4 from Axminster is No. 1. As stated before, we need warranty and ARC won't offer any so they are out of question. Not my decision but that of my bosses, sorry.

 

EDIT. From an outsider standpoint.

Over the past couple of weeks I've looked at many reviews/opinion/threads online. Chester, Axminster, New Chinese, Old English etc… There are so many polarising opinions. I guess an all round ideal lathe to suit all requirements doesn't exist (or does it?). How does one make a decision not to regret it later on? It's a general question that is applicable to almost everything in life but somehow choosing a lathe appears to be an almost impossible task. A week into my modest online research I wished I didn't bother!

Shoudl have just went online, pointed at the first one to come up in search results and ordered that. Deal with all its shortcomings later… Now my head is full of new terminology and new information that makes it much harder to actually… decide! Metric, imperial, geared head or not, this, that… Gosh for an industry that has stopped evolving so long ago (and now moved fully to CNC), buying a first lathe seems an endless exercise. As soon as you're "set" on something, there is always a completely destroying review by somebody else coming. Not in this thread. Just general observation.

I honestly wish that after so many decades someone just came up with a perfect, super sturdy design, made locally in a compact package with long lasting internals that you don't need to fiddle with… Could it be any simpler? Ha!

 

 

 

Thanks again,

J

Edited By John Mitchell 9 on 01/12/2019 12:28:37

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