Purchasing a Milling machine

[Alan Waddington 2Participant @alanwaddington2]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer

"Dave has nothing to do with any of it, …" That's a first. I normally plead guilty and ask for 75 other offences to be taken into consideration.

Cheers,

Dave

Ha Ha, wish this forum had a 'like' button

[Russ BParticipant @russb]

I've owned a Chester 20VS, and an Eagle 25, (Warco minor, RF25) which is out of budget I know, but I'm throwing it in the ring. I've also owned a Sieg X1 (with the long table) a Bridgeport J-head and Astra Mill and various other machines I've probably forgot about. I converted the Sieg X1 to a solid, non tilting column which really made it a fantastic machine, apart from the 150w motor, which was just unable to do any real work. I remade the gib strips in brass which made table adjustment much easier. If it had a bigger motor, it would have been capable of similar work to the 20VS without a doubt – and for half the price, thus I would have to throw the SX1LP machine, which is a fairly recent model, in to the ring here as a serious contender to the 20vs, I do worry however that the 250w motor will struggle at low speed as it has no hi/lo gearing – but I appriciate that motor ratings have to be taken with a pinch of salt, as I believe foreign manufacturers can quote peak or startup values that are well above the running rating (I'm no expert) and softer starting motors don't have this, but can run at higher torques – I would like to hear from a someone who has owned an SX1LP.

The Chester 20VS was a beautiful machine, it was accurate, and nimble. The Eagle 25 was equally accurate, had a smaller footprint -its was heavy and strong (2x the weight or more). The 20V, as its now called, gives you good all rounder but it is a little flimsy say you wanted to fly cut a large flat area of mild steel say 2-3 inch wide, it would flex and give a poor finish unless you were quite delicate and had razor sharp tooling, I also had to adjust the tram of the vertical column a couple of times which is a pain, and a sign of its fragility. It does however have that dovetail column, so you can raise the head height and go from a drill + chuck, 200mm+ away from the workpiece to an end mill in the spindle 30mm from the work piece without losing your x,y coordinates – just spin a handle and lower the head (if you've set it up and trammed properly, which isn't easy!)

In contrast the Eagle25 (aka RF25, mine was a Warco Minor I think) would fly cut though a 2-3 inch wide flat bar and hold steady and smooth, giving a good finish even with a fairly heafty cut. however the round column means if you need to raise or lower the head, your going to loose your x/y coordinates – they do have a much longer stroke on the quill which can over come most of this, so a little bit of careful planning and just generally getting used to working with it will get you going – if you use a collet holder rather than collets in the spindle taper, this will reduce the difference between the overall length of your drill and mill operations – a selection of short drill will close the gap even further – probably eliminating the issues altogether.

I would much rather have the Eagle 25 over any other machine that takes up that small of bench footprint and would expect it to take cuts so heavy you'd have to see and use one to believe it – I really enjoyed and preferred using the 20V but it was just too fragile for the general use I give it – I can see it being an excellent and agile machine for modelling and light duties, as I hope the SX1LP would be, but I have no experiance of this one – it just looks to have summarised everything I would have wanted to change on my original X1L machine.

Edited By Russ B on 14/11/2016 10:43:20

[andy gladwinParticipant @andygladwin60648]

Thanks for the replies, very much appreciated.

I did see the 'dubious' ones but also noticed they were both first time posters so was thinking it looks suspicious.

I find myself leaning towards the Warco Major mill/drill because as a beginner Im going to be double checking everything all the time anyhow… these machines are 2 to 3 times the weight of the Dove tail column mills which i read is more of an advantage.

What I can't see is why the Warco Major is so much cheaper than the Chester Eagle 30 (way out my price range).

Im not really interested in a second hand machine, I don't want to have to learn how to fix a machine or have something that is so heavy I can't move it with my engine crane…. my Father in law is trying to make me get a Bridgport, its great but I want to start off smaller.

[old AlParticipant @oldal]

Im not a fan of Chinese tooling. I curently have a Brigeport mill-short table, a Colchester student lathe and 2 Myford 7 lathes.

I started with a Warco minor mill and a myford. The mill did its job and the support i had from Warco was second to none and i didnt even buy it from them, i got it second hand. The mill got me going, it earnt me a few bob and fitted size wise well in my workshop. At the time of my model engineering career, i was very pleased with it.

The worst you can do is buy a machine that is too small for what you need, the second worst is buying a machine that is far to big for your needs and filling your valuble space with something that 'will come in handy one day'

[John RuddParticipant @johnrudd16576]

Andy,

There is also the Axminster ZX30 equivalent if you fancy the colour scheme….

Your thinking behind the new machine was the same as mine when I sold my Eagle….I didnt want the aggro of having to collect a second hand machine which is something else to consider along with the running repairs that may be needed and associated spares issues….so Imwent for the 626….

Believe me, despite the main shortcoming of the round column, the Major/Eagle 30 whatever flavour, is a very capable machine and mine was further enhanced by having the 3ph vfd conversion, my goto machine as opposed to the Chester Conquest and Sieg SX2 mills I also have for much lighter stuff….

There are some photos of my Eagle in my album….if they help you decide….

Usual disclaimer……just very happy with the machines I own or owned… 

Edited By John Rudd on 14/11/2016 11:40:40

Edited By John Rudd on 14/11/2016 11:50:04

[andy gladwinParticipant @andygladwin60648]

Thanks John and Al

That Axminster ZX30 is another very good option for me although the stand is quite expensive.

Almost certainly I will later modify the machine to have the vfd etc… This is going in my double garage, i don't have a dedicated workshop its a combination so the tools/machines all have to fit behind the 2 cars

[John RuddParticipant @johnrudd16576]

Andy,

I originally bought my Eagle from Chester,no stand.

I then bought the stand from Axminster, they were the cheapest at the time….

As time moves on it seems that the obvious choice would be to buy single source, Warco in this case..seem to be cheapest all round…

Happy shopping……

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Russ B,

To avoid confusion on this thread, I have created a separate thread: SIEG SX1L comparison with SX1LP and X/SX2.7s, to respond to your post.

Thanks,

Ketan at ARC.

[Paul H 1Participant @paulh1]

Andy’s question is very much what I went through earlier this year when looking for my mill. I too looked at that size of machine and budget, but finally stretched the budget to get the biggest machine I could go to, as this is a one time purchase. A SP2217-30 from SPG tools. This is very similar to the AMA30LV from Amadeal but was not so expensive and a lot more economical than its other competitors. Yes the machine has some plastic gears, but spares are available and a belt drive conversion kit. To put some facts on Andy’s size of work, I went into the workshop and wound the head up to its limit and took some measurements.

Spindle to table – 470mm as per spec. Nose of drill chuck supplied to table 390mm

Height of my machine vice from ARC 120mm

So that gives 270mm between the top of the vice and the drill chuck.

I too wanted a stand originally, but after lots of measuring up decided to make a stout bench and use the money on the mill. I used 150×50 timber for the legs, crossmembers and top and then used on top of that a cheap 28mm kitchen worktop to give a nice cleanable surface. The whole bench is bolted into the concrete block wall. The height is 850 mm about the same as the stand. The bench also gives a lot more storage space underneath. With the head wound up the whole height of the machine on the bench is about 2050 mm (it’s about as I didn’t get the steps out).

With respect to some of the other comments made, I was brought up on mainly British made machine tools, Colchester, Boxford etc. and were my first choice for my lathe. I did a lot of research on what I could possibly buy British secondhand. As I rarely come to the UK, living in France, I would have had to buy sight unseen which is very off putting. For a mill, my choice would have been Bridgeport, they are great machines to use but trying to get a good one these days is not easy in the UK as they have not been made there for many years and they command a good price. However from experience I know they are big and heavy to manouver and for the home workshop (not USA as almost everyone US on YouTube machining videos seems to have one) they take up a lot of space.

So I went Chinese. Having followed since the early 80s the evolution of their machine tools which were at the time rather basic, I feel they now make some very good products and for the home shop unbeatable value. I know others will not all share that opinion. On the woodworking side I have Kity machines and I am sure they were made in China from some of the things I have found inside. I have been using these for 10 years with no problems. As a lifetime purchase, I fully expect to be able to leave my tools to my son who likes making stuff also.

Paul

[Alan Waddington 2Participant @alanwaddington2]

Posted by andy gladwin

Im not really interested in a second hand machine, I don't want to have to learn how to fix a machine or have something that is so heavy I can't move it with my engine crane…. my Father in law is trying to make me get a Bridgport, its great but I want to start off smaller.

Andy

Why do you think a second hand machine would necessarily need fixing, both the Boxford and Tom Senior were both solid well made machines, designed to withstand light industrial use and last a long time. It sounds likely that a lot of the new chinese machines will need more 'fixing' straight out of the box. Your budget would buy a lot more by going secondhand and get you a more versatile future proof machine with a strong resale value.

Neither are stupidly heavy, even a Bridgeport could be moved with an engine crane. I'd side with your Father in law, because I can guarantee that's probably where you will end up eventually…………

[andy gladwinParticipant @andygladwin60648]

Hi Paul Thanks for the information and insight.

You bring another machine option to the table which is great. I have also not read any good words about the stands that come with these machines, Im beginning to accept I may have to make the stand/table so that I can afford /justify buying the tolls to go with the machine.

Hi Alan, I do understand that the second hand full size machines offer great value, however as a complete novice I stand as much change buying a total lemon as a good one, and I just don't want the hassle or risk. Also they will simply take up too much precious room in my garage

[Chris Evans 6Participant @chrisevans6]

Andy, as a Bridgeport owner/user I must agree about the size compared to the smaller offerings. A Bridgeport looks tiny in an industrial unit but not in a double garage. I am lucky in that my garage roof is full height of the house but agree the footprint is sizeable once the operating envelope is considered as well.

[Alan Waddington 2Participant @alanwaddington2]

You think you've got problems Chris…..

[Alan Waddington 2Participant @alanwaddington2]

Ok Andy, I get the impression I'm flogging a dead horse, but I'm going to offer one more little beauty, before I shut up for ever ………..

**LINK**

Edited By Alan Waddington 2 on 18/11/2016 21:21:07

[andy gladwinParticipant @andygladwin60648]

Hi Alan…. Funny you should post that, I have been bidding on that very machine

[andy gladwinParticipant @andygladwin60648]

I found that machine a few days back and had thought it didn't look too big and well looked after, I asked the seller some questions and decided to bid…. Unfortunately for me it seems I'm not the only person who likes it and I have gone to my budget for a machine and was still outbid, although I'm sure it's worth more I simply can't justify it

Edited By andy gladwin on 19/11/2016 09:38:00

[Alan Waddington 2Participant @alanwaddington2]

Wow, it made £1800.

Strong money indeed, although small mills do seem to make high prices.

[andy gladwinParticipant @andygladwin60648]

Yes too much for me, I have ended up getting one of these.

http://www.chesterhobbystore.com/lux-milling-machine-3996-p.asp

Thanks for all the advice, for someone who had very little knowledge of mills going into a purchase it has been invaluable

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

Nice 'hobby' size mill, can see why it was popular.

Tony

[andy gladwinParticipant @andygladwin60648]

I wbought a second hand Chester Lux, complete with DRO stand and lots of mostly unused tools including vice.

Plenty big enough for the parts I plan to make and fits in my garage without issue.

I can now get on with making the bespoke uprights for my project Capri

[IMG]http://i556.photobucket.com/albums/ss7/andy_gtt/F80DC2E1-2C80-4950-A91E-83028A1A25BD_zps9idwsemg.jpg[/IMG]

Thanks again for all the advice

Edited By andy gladwin on 24/11/2016 23:09:26

[Nigel BennettParticipant @nigelbennett69913]

I've had a Chester Lux for about ten years now and I've been very happy with it. I think in retrospect I should have gone for the Super version with the powered up/down feed to the head, as my manual handle is a bit awkward to operate.

Mine has the ISO 30 spindle; it was an option when I bought it but they don't now offer this version.

Andy – I hope yours gives you a lot of pleasure using it!

[JonParticipant @jon]

Had a Super Lux 12 1/2 years just got to know its limitations with 1hp motor, newer ones are 1.5hp.

Parts aint cheap and break often mines a scrapper when get the dosh together but will nick the 3 axis DRO and proper power feed meant for the knee mills. Problem is theres a massive price difference for anything better with similar bed length and travel, another weakness they bow like a banana.
Beds and uprights gone on mine as well as lead screws even though chemically treated with a bonding agent 12 years ago, seen much worse less than 12 months old.

Biggest downturn for me is the lead screw and more important quill wear apparent 8 years ago and the slow spindle speed 1250rpm jobs take an eternity.
Also head alignment/tramming dependant upon clamping up of side locking gib strips. Test undo both screws and watch the whole head move in two planes.

That said its paid for itself 10 yr ago, would I have another, no.

There are Lux available in US that are extensively modded to operate at substantially faster spindle speeds and the better R8 taper but aint cheap.

[Author]

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