polishing in the lathe

[RRMBKParticipant @rrmbk]

**LINK**

Hopefully this may provoke some intersting discussion about how we help others in the hobby to be, and stay; safe.

[RRMBKParticipant @rrmbk]

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Encouraging to find that lathes are still being used by 14 year old despite the risk of potentially hazardous proceedures and that HSE response is ,as always," find a way to do it safely" and not "don't do it at all".

Martin

[Ed DuffnerParticipant @edduffner79357]

Sorry to hear about the young lad. I hope that a message would have gone out immediately to all schools/colleges so the same doesn't happen again.

I think the HSE could also update their wording to a more modern language in the quoted text on that web page.

"Section 3(1) of the Health and Safety at Work etc Act 1974 states: “It shall be the duty of every employer to conduct his undertaking in such a way as to ensure, so far as is reasonably practicable, that persons not in his employment who may be affected thereby are not thereby exposed to risks to their health or safety.” "

Ed.

[RRMBKParticipant @rrmbk]

I fully agree. I intended my inital post to refer to encouraging younger people into a hobby that appears to have an increasingly ageing membership profile, but worded it wrongly. Also if you are not already aware of it the HSE " Mythbusters section of their website makes some very interesting and occasionally entertaining reading !

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

The pupil, from Knaresborough, was using a polishing cloth by hand on a work piece as it rotated on a manual metal lathe

The Health and Safety Executive (HSE) investigated and brought the prosecution after finding the Council had failed to identify that the practice of hand-polishing on metal lathes was unsafe despite it being used for years at the 1,700-pupil school.

Pretty basic stuff imo .

The big problem appears to be a lack of awareness by the council and school because so few people use lathes etc nowadays

Even as amateurs we all learn from an early stage to keep loose things away from a lathe, mill etc

A horrible very avoidable accident

[Nick_GParticipant @nick_g]

.

I can hear my fathers voice if it had been me that lost a finger.

"Silly bugger. That will teach you to be more careful in future. ………… Now have you got any maths, English or science homework to get done.!"

Nick

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

I assume the council has stopped using all machines in schools?

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

And that is why I commented on the video of someone wearing gloves while using a mill.

There are many safer ways, not least using easily torn paper tissue if you must polish in the lathe.

Neil

[RRMBKParticipant @rrmbk]

DC1

One would sincerely hope not, but unfortunately that does tend to be the sort of knee jerk reaction that eventually happens. I agree wholehartedly with ADY's comments I feel that proper awareness and acknowledgement of the risks, and passing on that knowledge to teach newcomers whether they are children or adults; is beholden on all of us who did have the benfit of proper experienced tutors, often during a 4 or 5 year apprenticeship. Equally it is important that those who recieve the benefit of that learning use the information properly and in the right manner.

I put this up originally partly because of the recent protracted discussion that has taken place about plugs and sockets of differing types. whilst HSE does not apply directly in our home workshops, ultimately it is up to us as adults to shoulder responsibility for our safety and the safety of anyone we teach or influence, especially when forums such as this are such wonderful fountains of excellent practice and hard learned experience, and others tend to rely on them for their guidance.

[LambtonParticipant @lambton]

I am very sorry to learn of this accident to a young lad. I hope it does not put him off using a lathe safely.

We can all learn from this by downloading the link below that was included in the HSE press release. It explains in a very clear way the right and wrong ways to use emery cloth on a lathe. I know that we are perhaps older and wiser however we are sometime tempted to take a short cut.

**LINK**

[mick70Participant @mick70]

cheers for link Lambton, will show my 7yr old as he is learning on lathe with me and at club.

[MikeParticipant @mike89748]

I agree with pretty well all of what has been said. But why even think of using emery cloth when easily-torn wet & dry is much safer, and usually gives a better finish?

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

The little emery stick sold in packs in pound shops are a convenient and safe way of polishing small items.

Neil

[john carruthersParticipant @johncarruthers46255]

As a 14 year old I witnessed a huge row between our metalwork master and the head master. The head was insisting we wore school ties in the shop ! and this was a technical school !! (newly appointed head).
A few minor accidents did happen, black fingernails and minor scratches, but never anything serious.

The teacher 'Cog' Wheeler ran a safe shop. He demonstrated 'the most dangerous tool in the shop' by running pigs trotters through the bandsaw. I learned more from that old boy than the rest of the staff put together.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 05/08/2015 16:10:01:

The little emery stick sold in packs in pound shops are a convenient and safe way of polishing small items.

.

… and the [more expensive] versions sold for clock and watchmaking are also useful, if you want finer and more predictable results.

MichaelG.

.

Edit: for example

 

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 05/08/2015 18:23:23

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Ed Duffner on 05/08/2015 12:07:46:

…

I think the HSE could also update their wording to a more modern language in the quoted text on that web page.

"Section 3(1) of the Health and Safety at Work etc Act 1974 states: “It shall be the duty of every employer to conduct his undertaking in such a way as to ensure, so far as is reasonably practicable, that persons not in his employment who may be affected thereby are not thereby exposed to risks to their health or safety.” "

.

Ed,

I've only just read your post:

Whilst I have some sympathy with your thinking, it is probably worth mentioning that HSE's choice of language uses terms that are legally enforceable; whereas "Plain English" terms are sometimes not.

The simplest example is "shall" … which is recognized legally as being mandatory [just like the old Biblical "thou shalt"]: It is much more difficult to enforce words like "will" and "must".

… Hope that helps explain why they write in "old fashioned" language.

MichaelG.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

… and the [more expensive] versions sold for clock and watchmaking are also useful, if you want finer and more predictable results.

Look for the foam-centred ones for nail polishing, rather than shaping. AFAIC they go down to about 1000 grit and give mirror finish used on steel.

Neil

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Thanks for the tip, Neil

MichaelG.

[Ed DuffnerParticipant @edduffner79357]

Hannants offer a range of sanding sticks etc.

**LINK**

Ed.

[Enough!Participant @enough]

The usual hysteria aside, am I the only one who thinks the statement:

……… the Council had failed to identify that the practice of hand-polishing on metal lathes was unsafe despite it being used for years at the 1,700-pupil school.

would logically suggest that the practice is, in fact, generally safe?

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

By the wording of the article they are still using the lathes, but are using some other method of polishing. Where was the supervisor?, I think it's him that needs to be taken to task.

Ian S C

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Posted by Bandersnatch on 05/08/2015 21:53:28:

The usual hysteria aside, am I the only one who thinks the statement:

……… the Council had failed to identify that the practice of hand-polishing on metal lathes was unsafe despite it being used for years at the 1,700-pupil school.

would logically suggest that the practice is, in fact, generally safe?

Of course it is – provided you are aware of the dangers and how to avoid them. The pupil should have been made aware.

Russell.

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

responding to Bandersnatch:-

When calculating risk you have to consider 2 factors. The frequency of the failure and the severity of the injury.

To consider something safe just because it doesn't happen very often is only half the story.

Martin

[Jon GibbsParticipant @jongibbs59756]

Posted by Ian S C on 06/08/2015 10:20:50:

By the wording of the article they are still using the lathes, but are using some other method of polishing. Where was the supervisor?, I think it's him that needs to be taken to task.

Ian S C

I guess you may be right but it says there were 6 other lathes being used at the time and it doesn't say how many other kids there were in the class at the time and what they were doing.

My guess is that the teacher has already been hung out to dry.

Jon

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