Not such a Dodgy Lathe on Ebay

[Eng JoeParticipant @engjoe]

Hi Was checking lathes on ebay and come across an 8mm Friedrich Schubert watchmakers lathe number 333653784161. But the photos used were from the site Lathes.co.uk/ Schubert/ reported it to ebay but no reply. The sale went ahead (20/07/2020) and closed at 28 bids £430. Today (21/07/2020) it was relisted under a new number 333661050108 same photos. Sent another report to ebay. It all seems very dodgy to me what do you think!

[Eng JoeParticipant @engjoe]

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember32069]

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[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Although it does appear to be the same lathe as on Lathes.co.uk they are not the same photos, eg none on the site show the complete double socket outlet so could not even have been cropped. Possibly the seller provided the photos to Tony's site or there is also the dodgy practice of putting people off an item by various means to keep the price low.

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

Looks like a nice little machine.

Steve.

[DanielParticipant @daniel]

Ha ha ,

Some fishy shenanigans going on here, methinks.

Pity, as I agree; It does look like a nice machine for someone.

Going to "watch" it anyway, just out of interest.

Daniel

 

Edited By Daniel on 22/07/2020 09:53:25

[Clive Brown 1Participant @clivebrown1]

Yes, a strange "first post".

Looks a nice laal machine as you'd say in Cumbria.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Agreed, the photo wasn't copied.

Perhaps the first sale was cancelled when it was reported to ebay.

Neil

[Eng JoeParticipant @engjoe]

Hi

Thanks for the reply’s, Barrie I think you are right about the bidding as the winning bid had zero feedback and the item was relisted 53 seconds later. Regarding the photos it looks as if the seller may have supplied them to the website, if that was the case the seller should have mentioned that in the description, how old are the photos one year, five years, ten years, what does the lathe look like today, if the seller has the lathe why not supply new photos it’s not very difficult. With all of the above points the seller is not giving any potential bidders much confidants in the sale. I am over sixty-five years old with a fully equipped workshop and worked in engineering all my life, I have been looking at small lathes this last two years probably never buy one. So having been caught twice myself on eBay decided to highlight this issue. So I took the plunge, my first-time post in any forum anywhere and I wish I hadn’t bothered you are a suspicious lot, do you ever thing that there might be people out there that just want to do the right thing and highlight things like this when they are full of red flags you should have a bit more faith in humanity. It is a lot of money but I do hope there is nothing untoward about the sale and somebody can pickup a nice little lathe and get as much pleasure out of it as I do with mine. Will be watching the sale.

Thanks Joe

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

If you are interested in the lathe then why not contact the seller and ask for a photo with something to date it like a newspaper in the shot and also enquire if he supplied Tony with the photos for his Website.

It is quite possible that the seller is a collector and may not have even used the machine since the photos were taken.

It also works both ways, you are suspicious about the seller which could be totally unfounded too.

[Gray62Participant @gray62]

I would agree with the OP that the lathe shown on ebay is the same lathe shown on lathes.co.uk, looking carefully at the pictures, it would appear that the images on lathes.co.uk have been cropped from the originals which leads me to the assumption that the ebay seller provided Tony with the images and not that they have been 'lifted' from his site for the purposes of deception.

As Jason quite rightly says, contacting the seller for clarification would be the best way to go rather than raising suspicion needlessly. It one thing to be cautious and there have been too many ebay scams to warrant taking things at face value however, one should not cast aspersions without first validating ones suspicion.

Gray

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember32069]

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[File HandleParticipant @filehandle]

Posted by Barrie Lever on 22/07/2020 17:55:18:

Posted by Eng Joe on 22/07/2020 16:06:10:

Hi

Thanks for the reply’s, Barrie I think you are right about the bidding as the winning bid had zero feedback and the item was relisted 53 seconds later. Regarding the photos it looks as if the seller may have supplied them to the website, if that was the case the seller should have mentioned that in the description, how old are the photos one year, five years, ten years, what does the lathe look like today, if the seller has the lathe why not supply new photos it’s not very difficult. With all of the above points the seller is not giving any potential bidders much confidants in the sale. I am over sixty-five years old with a fully equipped workshop and worked in engineering all my life, I have been looking at small lathes this last two years probably never buy one. So having been caught twice myself on eBay decided to highlight this issue. So I took the plunge, my first-time post in any forum anywhere and I wish I hadn’t bothered you are a suspicious lot, do you ever thing that there might be people out there that just want to do the right thing and highlight things like this when they are full of red flags you should have a bit more faith in humanity. It is a lot of money but I do hope there is nothing untoward about the sale and somebody can pickup a nice little lathe and get as much pleasure out of it as I do with mine. Will be watching the sale.

Thanks Joe

Hello Joe

Yes that is what I call a rescue bid, ie it rescues the item from going down the pan !! I don't like it and feel I have been cheated that way a couple of times.

In general you will find the forum friendly and the denizens don't get much more vicious than in this message thread so don't be put off as this is about as bad as it gets.

I would best describe the experience of coming onto this forum for the first time as a bit like going into a pub where you are not known and a few grumpy old men in the corner scowl at you and are rude but the rest of the pub is friendly.

There a few people on the forum who make great statements that come from a very narrow mind, if you stay you will figure these people out.

I have had great experiences buying lathes and other engineering items on Ebay, if you wish I will talk you through some of the ways to make things work in your favour rather than against you.

Pretty well my whole workshop is kitted out with Ebay purchases.

Best Regards

Barrie

Barrie would that make a publishable article, sounds a good idea to me if you have the inclination to write it. I watch prices on ebay, but wary about bidding without viewing.

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember32069]

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[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I don't get any say in those matters but expect it will be a worthwhile read.

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

There is also the other possibility that does happen a lot on ebay. People create an account & put a silly bid in. I guess it's mainly kids mucking about. Although you would have thought the seller would have explained if that was the case.

Steve.

[speelwerkParticipant @speelwerk]

It is not difficult to find items on Ebay which have been "sold" but are offered again by the same seller. How they do it without paying sellers fee (Ebay & Paypal is around 15% together) is a question for me. Niko.

Edited By speelwerk on 22/07/2020 21:54:28

[egaParticipant @ega]

Posted by Barrie Lever on 22/07/2020 19:05:38:

Keith

Give me a few days and I would run the content by Neil and Jason before publication.

B.

I assume, and hope, that your article will be about making eBay work in your/our favour?

Edited By ega on 23/07/2020 14:24:26

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I think we will need to show a little care, but a well-rounded guide to what to look for in secondhand machines and how to buy as safely (as possible) on line might be a good idea.

Perhaps not make it too specific to eBay as much of the advice will apply to other sites (e.g. Gumtree) and even our classifieds – many years ago I bought a motor from a very nice old chap out of the classifieds. In the end it sat on the shelf for a few years before I needed it – and then it turned out to have a blown winding.

Neil

[Stuart BridgerParticipant @stuartbridger82290]

This thread reminds be of a case a few years back regarding the sale of an expensive piece of hi-fi kit (no comments on hi-buffs please). A user had legitimately bought said piece of kit via a well known auction site. A few months later he saw the same kit up for sale, complete with photos of the serial number. Instead of just reporting it, he decided to bid on it and won. There then started a conversation about payment and delivery. The seller got very shirty when the owner said that no way was he going to pay for an item that he already owned and was in his possession.

[Lee RogersParticipant @leerogers95060]

Similar thing happend recently . My restored Drummond Admiralty B Type is Featured on Tonys site with a photo album including one of a letter to the original purchaser on Drummond Headed note paper. This photo lifted from Tonys site was in the ebay ad and he claimed that he had some interesting original documentation. I messaged him and told him to take it down and why. I posted the incident on the Drummond FB group and a guy who had sold the lathe to the ebayer a while ago messaged me and asked for more info. He then contacted the ebayer and had a few words with him.

To say I was hopping mad is an understatement.

[Andy Thomas 1Participant @andythomas1]

Posted by speelwerk on 22/07/2020 21:52:30:

It is not difficult to find items on Ebay which have been "sold" but are offered again by the same seller. How they do it without paying sellers fee (Ebay & Paypal is around 15% together) is a question for me. Niko.

Edited By speelwerk on 22/07/2020 21:54:28

(First post from long time lurker-please be gentle – it's the first time I can post on this forum on subject of which I have a little knowledge!)

I recently cleared out my shed of a load of motorcycle parts. I clearly advertised the parts on ebay as only delivering to the UK. When bidding finished, one of the buyers messaged me from Russia informing me how I could change my settings to allow delivery to Russia. Ebay meanwhile charged me sellers fees, but when I reported the buyer to ebay and cancelled the sale I was refunded the fees. I haven't relisted the item yet, but will probably do so when I have more time or inclination. I hope that explains the process a little.

Andy

[Cornish JackParticipant @cornishjack]

A bit concerning that one of the responses above suggests sellers bidding up their sale item is acceptable – IT IS NOT! It is referred to as 'shill bidding' and is (for obvious reasons) illegal. I've only come across it once (provably) and took action with Ebay. It (Ebay) is a useful function but a natural hunting ground for the rip-off merchants!

rgds

Bill

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Yet another suggestion might be that the original zero feedback bidder was contacted to inform him that a zero feedback buyer bid would not be accepted and he then plonked in a huge bid at the close? It happens and may have happened to the seller previously? Just another guess, of course.

That zero-rated buyer may not be an ebay member by now, even. Epay favours sellers over buyers.

I’ve noted dodgy sellers with virtually zero feedback selling specific items which have very likely been adulterated before sale (if they actually exist at all) – ie removal of good parts and replacement with defective parts (yes, it happens). Epay remove them and they just open another account. Fairly obvious when the item location is the same town several times over.

On a high value item, I tend to pay cash on collection (and inspection).

My brother recently made a purchase but noted one part had been ‘accidentally removed’ from the box. It took quite some time before he received that part from the vendor. That prevented him from checking the item was working entirely as described, but his dispute was registered early so he is now going to check its operation very carefully…

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember32069]

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