New ideas for tool grinding in the workshop

[VicParticipant @vic]

I don't like grinding on the curved part of the wheel. I don't understand why some enterprising dealer over here doesn't sell this type, they're a darn sight better than the normal double ended grinder:

http://www.grizzly.com/products/Heavy-Duty-Tool-Grinder/H7762

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

You mean like this one from Chester ?

Tool grinder

[Michael Cox 1Participant @michaelcox1]

My first attempts at milling were carried out on my minilathe using the Seig milling attachment. This is not a very satisfactory milling attachment. A good criticism of it is here:

http://andysmachines.weebly.com/the-vertical-milling-slide—criticisms.html

I persevered with it for some time and managed to do some milling but in the process I broke/chipped several milling cutters. These breakages were partly due to the sloppiness of the milling attachment, cross slide and coarseness of feed but mainly due to inexperience. The lessons I learned from this were:

a. I needed to buy a milling machine

b. I needed to make a cutter grinder in order to recover broken/chipped milling cutters

I purchased an X1 milling machine from ArcEurotrade and almost instantly milling became much easier.

At around the same time there was an article in MEW by Ralph Sparrow (MEW 117 July 2006) entitled "Sharpening with diamond discs". In this he described a jig that held the head of a flexible shaft, attached to a rotary tool, at an angle that could be readily set. This was designed to fit on the bed his Unimat lathe and using this set up and a small diamond disc in the flexible shaft head he was able to sharpen lathe tools, milling cutters and twist drills. These diamond disc are readily available from several suppliers including Arc Eurotrade. This all sounded very good and I went on to build this lathe attachment and various jigs to hold tools, milling cutters and drills. My rotary tool flexible drive was from ALDI and the head had much end and side play. I had to rebuild the head of the flexible drive in order to be able to rotate the diamond disc reliable without wobble or end play.

I used this arrangement on my lathe for some time and produced some good results sharpening all my broken/chipped milling cutters. It was even possible to sharpen cutters as small as 3 mm diameter because the diamond discs had a very well defined edge. The only thing I did not like about the arrangement was all the dust flying about so close to the lathe.

I had made a lower base for the topslide of my minlathe and I had the old one spare. I also had the old minilathe milling attacment and I started to think about making a dedicated cutter grinder based on these components together with the Ralph Sparrow attachment. I ordered the the top part of the topslide from Clark (it is a Clark minilathe) . I used the milling attachment to provide the infeed and the topslide to provide the crossfeed and made a small fabricated track for the Ralph Sparrow part.

The completed cutter grinder is shown here:

The milling attachment and the topslide are clearly visible. On the topslide is a rotating table that holds the jig that holds the cutter. The rotating table has a an angular scale and it can be locked at any angle by pinch screw. The Ralph Sparrow attachment is on the right hand side carrying the flexible shaft head. This sits on the fabricated track.

The unit is small with a footprint of about 300 x 300mm.

I hope this is of interest to others.

Mike

[CirclipParticipant @circlip]

"That could be made fairly easily for a lot less of the cost."

Yes but don't forget to load in the cost of taper roller and thrust bearings, not just a standard electric motor.

Regards Ian.

[VicParticipant @vic]

The one I linked to:

http://www.grizzly.com/products/Heavy-Duty-Tool-Grinder/H7762

Doesn't look too dissimilar to a standard bench grinder albeit it has much better tool supports and the wheels are different. It might not have the precision that some of you want but it would be a handy addition to my workshop at the right price point.

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Nothing new with these tool grinders.

Way back when what I did was a hobby and money was tight I used to scrounge the scrap yards for single phase fan units, the big industrial ones in a cage.

Whip the motor off, they are always 2,800 revs, bolt a top hatted boss to the shaft to carry the wheel and this was secured with a plate so it could rotate either way and rig a bit of a tilting table up out of dexion, cleverly filed up to NOT look like dexion.

Some had white wheels on, some had green grit wheels on. Made loads for friends in the same boat as fans were very easy to get and free.

Sorry for the crap picture but it was taken on 7/7/2007 in a storage unit and it was as close as I could get. Took the picture to show someone who wanted it. This was the last one I had as now on tipped tools and diamond grinders.

At this point in my life we had a truck garage and were required to put in so many hours a day, like most people but when we ran out of work I just used to spin on to my own jobs so I was always making things for my ownhome shop and for work.

[robjon44Participant @robjon44]

Hi guys, when I used to grind lathe tools for a living at one time in my career I had access to every sort of grinder but always ground steel shank away right up to the brazed tip on grey grit, followed by the carbide at a good clearance with green grit, & finally finished on a diamond wheel of the type advocated by John S, very little coolant is required just enough to wet the wheel guided into place by a matchstick pushed into the end of the pipe, you are only aiming for a land round the side no more than a couple of mill, even on production machines these stand up well & I still have some that only need showing to a diamond wheel or a hand lap before going back into the fray. Finally, if as I have, you find yourself working somewhere when the tool grinding facilities are primitive, HSS & steel shanks of brazed tipped tools respond well to the humble angle grinder!

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 05/06/2015 07:13:35:

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 04/06/2015 16:49:19:

What about a specification?

…

Naturally options and pay-offs can be explored, but the first thing is to decide what the basic function of the machine will be!

.

Neil,

Would you be able to set-up one of your 'voting' schemes on a seperate thread ?

Although more commonly used for things like Software Development, the 'MoSCoW analysis' would suit this project very well … it's an excellent way of focussing the collective mind.

MichaelG.

.

Neil,

Did you miss my question, or was the lack of response an implicit 'No' ?

MichaelG.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Hello Michael,

I missed it. Believe it or not I don't read every post.

I was hoping an enthusiastic forum member would decide to take a lead and suggesting a spec for others to beat into shape would be a start.

In the old days ME ran a design a lathe competition (only 3 or 4 entries worth printing!) The time for 'design a mill' has been and gone. Perhaps you could still 'design a grinder' although there are several tested self-build designs out ther, but I do think the modern age is better suited to a collaborative project.

I haven't got time to run it, but I would support it.

If their was a poll, I would have to be supplied with the questions… and someone would have to decide what they should be…

Neil

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Thanks, Neil

.. It's eay to get drawn into the belief that a conversation is being held

I was only trying to stir-up some enthusiasm for your suggestion.

Given that there was no interest expressed by other forum members, I will shut-up.

MichaelG.

[Eccentric EngineerParticipant @eccentricengineer]

Hi All

A couple of posters mentioned the Acute Tool Sharpening System earlier so I just thought I'd let you know there's now a demo video of the sharpener on the "What's New" section of the website.

The video explains the major components and how the table attaches to a bench grinder, how to set cutting angles, and I show it sharpening a lathe tool and a two flute slot drill/ end mill.

If you want to have a look just click the orange ad on the right.

Unfortunately, trying to find time to finish the DVD manual of how to build and use the system has delayed it's launch on the website shop. The DVD is taking way longer than expected but I'm getting there slowly.

Cheers
Gary
Eccentric Engineering

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Just to add that I spent an interesting 10 minutes or so viewing Gary's video today and the Acute system looks awesome, very well thought out.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by John Haine on 17/07/2015 22:42:28:

Just to add that I spent an interesting 10 minutes or so viewing Gary's video today and the Acute system looks awesome, very well thought out.

.

Briefly breaking my silence … Agreed!

Using a pantograph is a stroke of genius.

MichaelG.

[Dave Harding 1Participant @daveharding1]

I can not see any information on cost.

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Dave,

click on the whats new tab at the top.

Prices for the three tool sharpener options have now been finalised and the items will be uploaded to the shop as soon as the DVD manual is finished.

1. Drawings and DVD – $40 ($44)

2. Parts kits – $250 ($275)

3. Finished units – $450 ($495)

Prices in brackets are for Australian customers only and include 10%GST.
Shipping costs are not included in the prices above.

[Ralph SparrowParticipant @ralphsparrow78551]

Posted by Michael Cox 1 on 09/06/2015 15:56:46:

At around the same time there was an article in MEW by Ralph Sparrow (MEW 117 July 2006) entitled "Sharpening with diamond discs

Nice to see that my design has helped others. One thing that wasn't known to me at the time was that diamonds are just about the best conductor of heat. I could see that the diamond wheel didn't cause blueing on the edge being sharpened but didn't appreciate the reason. This meant that I didn't need to cool the piece being sharpened and it didn't lose temper. To me this is the best reason for diamond wheel sharpening. As well as this there is no grinder dust thrown about, helping to keep the workshop and my nostrils clean. I also found that it worked on tipped tools as well as HSS.

Soon after the design was published I got a nice letter from a German model engineer who had made his version of the design but he had improved it by adding a screw rise and fall to make the vertical location of the grinding head more precise.

I have to add that my engineering started with D. Napier and Son at the beginning of the 1950's and I didn't touch a lathe or mill 'till I retired 19 years ago. I hated grinding as much when I restarted as I did at the beginning. My main modelling interest was and is flying model aircraft, freeflight and radio control but machining bits and pieces is invaluable.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Welcome to the fold, Ralph!

Neil

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Well, my Acute grinder is on its way so I'll report back in a few days!

[Enough!Participant @enough]

Posted by John Haine on 27/10/2015 22:42:13:

Well, my Acute grinder is on its way so I'll report back in a few days!

You mean it's available now? the website still says "Coming Soon".

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

It is available, but perhaps the UK stock may not be in the country yet?

http://www.eccentricengineering.com.au/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=33&Itemid=3

Also see the UK Distributor page:

http://www.eccentricengineering.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=17&Itemid=43

There's also a USA disty.

Neil

Edited By Neil Wyatt on 28/10/2015 08:51:07

[Enough!Participant @enough]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 28/10/2015 08:49:59:

It is available, but perhaps the UK stock may not be in the country yet?

http://www.eccentricengineering.com.au/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=33&Itemid=3

…. but when I go there and click on < Drawings, Kits and Finished Units> the next page says "Coming Soon – Sorry for the Delay" – as it has for months.

(I'm in Canada so the UK site isn't attractive. Nor, in fact, is the US site as I suspect I'd be better off ordering direct from Oz)

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I suggest sending Gary at Eccentric an email.

Bear in mind he makes them himself, in batches.

Neil

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Apparently first batch despatched to UK beginning of last week, must have arrived quite quick because Hermes says mine has been collected by courier yesterday and is somewhere in their system I guess.

[clivelParticipant @clivel]

Posted by Bandersnatch on 28/10/2015 21:47:57:

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 28/10/2015 08:49:59:

It is available, but perhaps the UK stock may not be in the country yet?

http://www.eccentricengineering.com.au/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=33&Itemid=3

…. but when I go there and click on < Drawings, Kits and Finished Units> the next page says "Coming Soon – Sorry for the Delay" – as it has for months.

(I'm in Canada so the UK site isn't attractive. Nor, in fact, is the US site as I suspect I'd be better off ordering direct from Oz)

I ordered a diamond Toolholder directly from Eccentric Engineering in Australia to be delivered to me here in Canada, It was considerably cheaper than ordering from their US distributor. So I would guess that the same would apply to the Acute.

Clive

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Coming in late with a few comments.

1) Thor's picture, is not too unlike the TipLap grinder recently acquired at auction by one of the volunteers at The WaterWorks Museum. By the looks of the gunge that I did not remove completely, from it, never been cleaned from new. Their ambition is to use it, mostly for End Mills, but obviously Lathe Tools and Drills should be fairly easy, once set up with a suitable cup wheel.

2) I use a Worden, (a barely started kit, bought second hand, ) which does most of what I want. One day I may become proficient at Four Facet Drill sharpening?

A fairly basic machine, but does what I want. For the amount of tool grinding that i do cannot justify a Vertex, EMG or anything that sophisticated.

3) A diamond wheel is ideal for sharpening Masonry Drills. Ground as if for metal, they EAT bricks, on the very rare times that I use them!

My take? Decide: What you want to do with a cutter grinder?, ie what tools to sharpen, How often? Size of budget? Space requirements? When you have answers to all these that you consider to be satisfactory, search for/ buy / make/ modify a machine.

And then use the sharp tools to make all the bits that you want/need, and enjoy yourself.

Howard

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