Need to cut long thin strips of steel (& plastic) – e.g. with an angle grinder?

[John Smith 47Participant @johnsmith47]

Posted by Andrew Johnston on 19/01/2022 22:45:46:

Posted by John Smith 47 on 19/01/2022 01:32:35:

I'm guessing an 80 ton press could also stamp without unintended curves too…

If that was an attempt at sarcasm I'd advise you to stick to the day job.

There are bench top guillotines that will cut material without curvature. But they are designed for PCBs, so will cut plastic, but not steel.

Andrew

Wait, what about this beast?
The "Durston Heavy-Duty 300 Guillotine Shear"

"it can cut 300mm wide and 2mm of mild steel ensuring clean cuts every time".
**LINK**

Sadly way outside my budget… (& insanely heavy at 58KG), but it looks fun to use in that video!

The cutting blades seem remarkably parallel so it would be interesting to learn just how flat the cuttings when full width cuts are made.

J

Edited By John Smith 47 on 20/01/2022 01:00:57

[Robin GrahamParticipant @robingraham42208]

Posted by John Smith 47 on 19/01/2022 15:56:25:

@Grindstone/Rob – I can't find a spec for the Burgess BK3.

Here you go mate, Burgess bandsaw manual . Took me a full 5 seconds to find that!

I have one:

and it might do what you want, but I've never tried cutting anything as thin as 1mm with it. It's a light enough machine, I can lift it with one arm and I'm not a beefy chap.

Best, IfanJones42

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by John Smith 47 on 20/01/2022 01:00:11:

.

Wait, what about this beast?
The "Durston Heavy-Duty 300 Guillotine Shear"

[…]

Sadly way outside my budget… (& insanely heavy at 58KG)

[…]

.

That looks like an honest, well-built, and appropriately hefty, tool for the job

MichaelG.

.

Edit: __ with the obvious caveat that it would perform better on some materials than others

… as per your opening post :

3. Materials
Steel is obviously the hardest of the things that I need to cut. So a small machine that could even cut just steel would be a revolution for me. But would it be too much to hope for one machine that could cut both materials? 

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 20/01/2022 04:18:04

[peak4Participant @peak4]

There are also machines such as the Formit, from Warco amongst others
https://www.warco.co.uk/sheet-metal-fabrication-machinery-metalwork/302933-mini-formit-universal-sheet-metal-machine.html
Sometimes described as a 3 in 1 sheet metal machine; Clarke and others sell them.

The guillotine blade seems to be set at an angle to the static blade though, so I would expect that the the removed material would curl away from the main sheet

They are designed for removing waste material up to the working edge of the project, but the problem here, is that the project is a lot narrower than the parent source material at 1 to 5mm, so effectively becomes the waste

That also looks to be the case with the Durston shear mentioned above.

Bill

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by John Smith 47 on 19/01/2022 15:56:25:

Posted by Maurice Taylor on 19/01/2022 14:03:01:

Hi, why don’t you use your Dremel and see if it works instead of keep asking others.

Maurice

Why? Because I haven't bought it and as a humble novice I am asking others if it's a stupid suggestion and if so for what reason.

…

It's not a stupid suggestion, but how successful it is depends on the skill, imagination and determination of the operator. A Dremel isn't the ideal tool for this, but it does meet most of John's peculiar requirements. Has John realised yet that his requirements are peculiar? From where I'm sat, answering a John Smith question is like playing Mornington Crescent – there are no rules. Is this parody or accident?

Accident I think, because John's project is full of internal conflicts. The end goal is secret. A commercial product is being developed with inexperienced home-made methods. Boundaries between home-made and professional methods are unclear. Prototype and production needs are conflated. There are unlikely difficult requirements for high precision. A major obstacle is time, money and space are all severely constrained, and further complicated by a muddle of other unhelpful obstacles like irrelevant needs such as next day delivery and VAT Invoices.

Concentrating on keeping tool costs and sizes down, unfortunately when circumstances rule out buying the large expensive specialist tools that makes jobs easy, and outsourcing, then the operator has to take up the slack and get stuck in. John appears reluctant accept this.

There are no shortcuts. Most Model Engineers succeed despite limited equipment. Shortcomings are overcome with skill, imagination and determination. In particular, we may take a long time to make parts and reject several attempts before getting one right. We accept substitute time and skill for expensive tooling.

Projects only have two resources, time and money. If money isn't available to fund a big, brightly lit workshop full of specialist tools, or to pay someone else, the same job can be done with simple hand-tools but it will take longer and put the strain on the operator. The secret of hand-tools is learning to use them properly – lots of practise, and realising they only work as fast as the human.

Possibly as a non-engineer John may not have realised that rejecting one hand tool because it cannot be quickly and easily applied at home means that all hand tools are off the agenda. Discussing them further risks annoying members because their attempts to help will be rejected when John eventually torpedoes them. This is very irritating.

If it were me, I'd look hard for ready made strips, if necessary changing the design to use whatever sizes are available. How about the spring strips inside windscreen wiper blades?

Otherwise I'd hacksaw strips by clamping a steel sheet between sacrificial wood, and tidying them up with a Dremel. How long each strip takes to make depends on the skill of the operator, which John would have to develop:

• How accurately can a new boy cut with a hacksaw. Poor at first, but improves considerably with practice. Any imperfections are removed slowly with the Dremel, so sloppy sawing at this stage is allowed, except it wastes time later.
• How accurately the new boy can tidy up with the Dremel without spoiling work by removing too much. Just as with a hacksaw, results will be poor at first, improving considerably with practice.
• Hand-tool accuracy can be improved with jigs, fixtures or other guides. In principle these are simple, but they too require skill. Much easier after several have been developed, first attempts are liable to disappoint.

Buying a hacksaw and Dremel is low-risk because they're affordable and useful for other work. They're as good a way of making a start on strip making as any other. However, it will be necessary to practise and experiment before acceptable strips are produced.

Given outsourcing isn't affordable, I can't see any way of getting John's project off the ground other than by him learning on the job. After the forum's advised on tools and methods, only he can make it happen.

I'm not sure what value there is in forum members rambling through possibilities when most of them are inapplicable to John's project due to requirement conflicts.

Dave

[John Smith 47Participant @johnsmith47]

Posted by peak4 on 20/01/2022 10:18:49:

There are also machines such as the Formit, from Warco amongst others
https://www.warco.co.uk/sheet-metal-fabrication-machinery-metalwork/302933-mini-formit-universal-sheet-metal-machine.html
Sometimes described as a 3 in 1 sheet metal machine; Clarke and others sell them.

The guillotine blade seems to be set at an angle to the static blade though, so I would expect that the the removed material would curl away from the main sheet

They are designed for removing waste material up to the working edge of the project, but the problem here, is that the project is a lot narrower than the parent source material at 1 to 5mm, so effectively becomes the waste

That also looks to be the case with the Durston shear mentioned above.

Bill

Mini Formit 3 ain't man enough:

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

SO Dave, You are a very perceptive fellow, and have summed up the situation very well, Thank you ! Noel.

[John Smith 47Participant @johnsmith47]

It's not a stupid suggestion, but how successful it is depends on the skill, imagination and determination of the operator. A Dremel isn't the ideal tool for this, but it does meet most of John's peculiar requirements. Has John realised yet that his requirements are peculiar? From where I'm sat, answering a John Smith question is like playing Mornington Crescent – there are no rules. Is this parody or accident?

Concentrating on keeping tool costs and sizes down, unfortunately when circumstances rule out buying the large expensive specialist tools that makes jobs easy, and outsourcing, then the operator has to take up the slack and get stuck in. John appears reluctant accept this.

There are no shortcuts. Most Model Engineers succeed despite limited equipment. Shortcomings are overcome with skill, imagination and determination. In particular, we may take a long time to make parts and reject several attempts before getting one right. We accept substitute time and skill for expensive tooling.

Projects only have two resources, time and money. If money isn't available to fund a big, brightly lit workshop full of specialist tools, or to pay someone else, the same job can be done with simple hand-tools but it will take longer and put the strain on the operator. The secret of hand-tools is learning to use them properly – lots of practise, and realising they only work as fast as the human.

Possibly as a non-engineer John may not have realised that rejecting one hand tool because it cannot be quickly and easily applied at home means that all hand tools are off the agenda. Discussing them further risks annoying members because their attempts to help will be rejected when John eventually torpedoes them. This is very irritating.

If it were me, I'd look hard for ready made strips, if necessary changing the design to use whatever sizes are available. How about the spring strips inside windscreen wiper blades?

Otherwise I'd hacksaw strips by clamping a steel sheet between sacrificial wood, and tidying them up with a Dremel. How long each strip takes to make depends on the skill of the operator, which John would have to develop:

• How accurately can a new boy cut with a hacksaw. Poor at first, but improves considerably with practice. Any imperfections are removed slowly with the Dremel, so sloppy sawing at this stage is allowed, except it wastes time later.
• How accurately the new boy can tidy up with the Dremel without spoiling work by removing too much. Just as with a hacksaw, results will be poor at first, improving considerably with practice.
• Hand-tool accuracy can be improved with jigs, fixtures or other guides. In principle these are simple, but they too require skill. Much easier after several have been developed, first attempts are liable to disappoint.

Buying a hacksaw and Dremel is low-risk because they're affordable and useful for other work. They're as good a way of making a start on strip making as any other. However, it will be necessary to practise and experiment before acceptable strips are produced.

Given outsourcing isn't affordable, I can't see any way of getting John's project off the ground other than by him learning on the job. After the forum's advised on tools and methods, only he can make it happen.

I'm not sure what value there is in forum members rambling through possibilities when most of them are inapplicable to John's project due to requirement conflicts.

Dave

Dave

Thank you for all your words.

Please rest assured that my project IS making good and steady progress. Please also know that much of the individual advice given to me by other users within this community conflicts. So obviously I can't follow all it. (e.g. Mick Berrisford prefers to use a wet wheel diamond blade tile saw to cut his steel! Which I still think sounds interesting… but it's not what the machine was designed for so it is not exactly a slam-dunk).

Despite the progress there are times when I would like to speed things up by acquiring new tools & new skills….which I am hoping that's no crime around here (!)

As your other comments about my business etc, in the nicest possible way… because I know that they were written intending to help… I do not seek advice in that regard. I'm sorry but you just going to let me make my own mistakes. There is much that you are unware of but you are crossing that line into private matters. And let's be honest, such comments are off-topic for a forum about workshop tools.

I have now cut the steels I need right now by hand using hacksaws, so I am in no immediate rush.

But maybe I'll just buy that damned Dremel and practice using it…

…Meanwhile if anyone else here has tried cutting stainless steel sheet using a wet wheel diamond blade tile saw, I'd love to learn about it!

J  

Edited By John Smith 47 on 20/01/2022 13:37:00

[Maurice TaylorParticipant @mauricetaylor82093]

Hi. Now your steel is cut ,you can mount it in a vice and draw file to the correct size,with care you will get a good finish, at no cost.

By the way ,what is a slam dunk

Maurice

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

It looks as though the end of the particular sage is close (hopefully)

[Nick Clarke 3Participant @nickclarke3]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 20/01/2022 12:19:26:

From where I'm sat, answering a John Smith question is like playing Mornington Crescent – there are no rules. Is this parody or accident?

Dave

Parody – you mean 'Rather like a parrot' I assume?

[Colin HeseltineParticipant @colinheseltine48622]

Possibly it is worth looking on Ebay for a guillotine similar to that shown below. I accept it is floor mounted but you could possibly move it around.

Colin

This one really needs bigger pedal but I have not got round to it. You could set depth stop at front and feed in from the rear.

Colin

[John Smith 47Participant @johnsmith47]

Posted by Maurice Taylor on 20/01/2022 13:58:13:

Hi. Now your steel is cut ,you can mount it in a vice and draw file to the correct size,with care you will get a good finish, at no cost.

By the way ,what is a slam dunk

Maurice

Yes fwiw, they now have been:
– Dykem blued
– scriber marked
– hacksawed (to 1mm over-size)
– hand filed to size (large/rough file) to roughly square off
– hand filed to size (small/fine file) to slight over-size (c. 0.25mm)
– 45° chamfered on one edge by large/rough hand file
– 45° chamfered on one edge by small/fine hand file
– 45° chamfered more accurately on diamond hone (rough)
– deburred all edges (deburring wheel)
– 45° chamfered precisely diamond hone (fine)
– deburred again diamond hone (fine)
– corners rounded diamond hone (rough)
– corners rounded diamond hone (fine)
– rough brush finish applied to both large surfaces (diamond hone rough)
– fine brush finish applied to both large surfaces (diamond hone fine)
…and endlessly measured…
==> Fitted. Phew!
 

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=slam%20dunk

@Colin Heseltine
Do you own that? Roughly how much twist & curl does it put into full width c.1mm thick steel sheet cuttings, in practice?  (Assuming that it can handle it…).

With thanks

J

Edited By John Smith 47 on 20/01/2022 16:21:11

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

It gets even more intriguing with each post.

What kind of desktop item needs such awkwardly finished parts?

Sheetmetal parts are supposed to be cheap and easy to manufacture(cut, bend, paint, install) for when you can't make them out of rod.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by peak4 on 20/01/2022 10:18:49:

.

… the problem here, is that the project is a lot narrower than the parent source material at 1 to 5mm, so effectively becomes the waste

That also looks to be the case with the Durston shear mentioned above.

Bill

.

I stand corrected, Bill and therefore partly withdraw my approbation

It still looks a nicely made machine but [inevitably?] is not ideal for John’s use-case.

MichaelG.

.

[Phil H1Participant @philh196021]

John,

This is not meant to come across as insulting but have you tried getting a finer, new blade for your hacksaw and then taking your time in daylight. And by the way, I agree with you regarding daylight. I have an eye defect (corneas) and I find daylight far better for doing this kind of work.

You will whizz through thin steel or anything else in no time. By the time you have read all the answers on here – it would be done.

Phil H

[Colin HeseltineParticipant @colinheseltine48622]

John,

Yes it is mine.

Up to now I have only used it for brass and steel shim stock. Originally the foot pedal would have been like a brake pedal on a long arm and would give much more leverage that the step type pedal fitted by previous owner.

To be able to try 1mm material I may need to bolt it to floor temporarily. I am a bit stuck for space so cannot put a large plate on the base to stabilise it.

There is a slightly smaller version of it for sale on Ebay at the moment item#125110115176 (£90 or best offer)

Colin

[John Smith 47Participant @johnsmith47]

Posted by Nicholas Wheeler 1 on 20/01/2022 16:47:56:

It gets even more intriguing with each post.

What kind of desktop item needs such awkwardly finished parts?

Sheetmetal parts are supposed to be cheap and easy to manufacture(cut, bend, paint, install) for when you can't make them out of rod.

They aren't that complicated, they really aren't. Certainly not a patch on what clock & watchmakers go through!

But since you ask, I am reassured that the parts won't be hard to manufacture in volume. You just get a die made and stamp them. At as you probably know, high pressures stainless steel becomes pretty malleable. If you want to scale up I am told that you could have multiple such die tools in action side-by-side to make say x2 or x3 at once. They can then be deburred & given a finish in various ways. Easy-peasy.
But making them accurately by hand for models is a bit time-consuming.

Yes I have been replacing my fine-toothed hacksaw blades from time-to-time. Currently I gave been using these:

"Eclipse 71-132R Junior Hacksaw Blades 32tpi"

But your suggestion is a good nudge to do so again… next time I'm cutting.

J

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I haven't read all the posts… but has anyone mentioned Mike Cox's sliding angle grinder holder in MEW 112?

With a 1mm cutting blade it seems ideal for this job. You probably would need to use a few clamps to keep the small cut off part from being whipped about or bent.

The Dremels are lovely, smaller than normal angle grinders, well-balanced and much more pleasant to use. The wheels are a lot more costly though!

Neil

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Also, using a wooden fence the dremel could cut many parallel slots in a sheet of metal… plunge cut, leaving an uncut section at each end. Nice, even, undistorted strips ready for you to remove one at a time by sawing through or using snips at the ends.

N.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 20/01/2022 23:02:19:

I haven't read all the posts… but has anyone mentioned Mike Cox's sliding angle grinder holder in MEW 112?

 

.

I don’t think so … but I was wondering whether to mention the one in MEW 312

MichaelG.

.

Seriously though … I don’t think John has the tools to make it ‘as described’ 

and probably wouldn’t have the time to adapt the design.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 20/01/2022 23:26:34

[Paul LousickParticipant @paullousick59116]

Ryobi sell a 18V Cordless Multi-Material Plunge Saw which accepts 3 3/8" dia blade blades for cutting wood up to 1" thick, ceramic tiles and thin sheet metal.

I recently used one for cutting 20mm MDF and 3mm plywood and is recommended. Comes with an adjustable width edge guide. Often on sale for the tool only (if you already have a battery) from Aus $79.00. It needs the larger battery for bigger jobs.

[John Smith 47Participant @johnsmith47]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 20/01/2022 23:02:19:

I haven't read all the posts… but has anyone mentioned Mike Cox's sliding angle grinder holder in MEW 112?

With a 1mm cutting blade it seems ideal for this job. You probably would need to use a few clamps to keep the small cut off part from being whipped about or bent.

The Dremels are lovely, smaller than normal angle grinders, well-balanced and much more pleasant to use. The wheels are a lot more costly though!

Neil

A "sliding angle grinder holder" is a promising concept, particularly if it had a reasonably long length of travel(?)

However it sounds like something DIY that one would have to make, rather than a commercially available product, yes? If the former, Michael is right… i.e. No, I'm not up for making my own tools.

Is it anything like this?

£182 on eBay:
**LINK**
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/313605782476

￡18.86 on AliExpress
**LINK**
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002481335644.html
(if you dare to trust the build quality of anything from AE!)

[TBH, I have bought a few things over the years off AliExpress, but almost without exception, I have regretted it because the build quality was so low.]

From what I can see the length of cut is rather limited (8cm) but if properly well made and able to cut straight lines properly I guess it could be useful. …Particularly if I bought that Dremel angle grinder to go with it (??)

J

 

Edited By John Smith 47 on 21/01/2022 03:35:25

[Steve PaveyParticipant @stevepavey65865]

I’ve skimmed through all the posts so may have missed it, but has anyone mentioned the Gabro guillotine? Their main advantage is that they give a distortion-free result.
Second choice (because it is slightly slower, but has the potential to be far more accurate) is a slitting saw in a milling machine -I think Jason has already suggested this, and there is an excellent Stefan Gotteswinter YouTube video on this very topic.

My third choice is to clamp the work between two pieces of ply/mdf and cut with a hacksaw, which I see you already do.

Last choice would be a Dremel – way too slow, not good with stainless, razor sharp edges to clean up, etc etc.

[Pete WhiteParticipant @petewhite15172]

Good Morning to all,

I have been a casual storker on this thead and have nothing to add to the many solutions offered. I believe I read that this a secret project so you may not want to answer John, but I was just curious as to how many of this strips you need to produce, if this question is not out of order ? The number required may well dictate the method to use?

Pete

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