Myford ML10 vs The Rest

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

I had to buy a new lathe to replace one at work, after lots of searching the only one to find was a Myford ML10 (metric) Duly ordered and it arrived and I opened the box and we set it up on the metal stand plugged in and in and never looked back. The firm later split up and moved to a different location and at the same time we aquired more machinery than we needed. I made a request to purchase the ML10 and gave a good offer price which was accepted.

I was able to shift it myself to my garage, this was in 1989 and it has done everything I have asked of it. I have the original purchase documents etc. It has never caused any problems and I carried out a couple of modifications on it to improve it's use. I would recommend a late serial number ML10 with ball bearing journals.

It does not need complicated electronic boards or special power supplies to run it. It will accept 1/2" tooling and I was able to get an EMCO quick change tool set up for free. Later the firm split again and I was told to go and clear out another firm who we took over and again we aquired more machinery and tooling etc. When I asked what to do with it, I was told to dump it. You can guess where it is dumped! During this I aquired an Italian bench drill for a lathe swop and a few other bits.

Without doubt, if I was starting up and an ML10 was available I would go for it! Bearing in mind what I have said above.

[Jeff AllanParticipant @jeffallan91301]

Posted by Clive Hartland on 28/07/2018 19:04:40:

.. I opened the box and we set it up on the metal stand plugged in and in and never looked back.

I was able to shift it myself to my garage, this was in 1989 and it has done everything I have asked of it. I have the original purchase documents etc. It has never caused any problems ..

That's lovely, thank you.

The only real downside with the ML10, as I currently see it, and as others are pointing out, is that spares and accessories are more expensive and seem harder to come by – than for the ML7 series. But the initial price of ML10's is lower, and it seems easier to find a decent one. Also you seem to be pointing out a low footprint, no fuss, ubiquity, that's very appealing. At the same time I have to recognise that there are other makes of machines, new and cheaper, that would have the same qualities, or better, and some have already been mentioned. Also those other cherished stories on these machines are probably in the making. It's just that I've had to jump and start somewhere, and those other choices were less obvious. I've still not made the purchase yet but in negotiation and your post makes me feel excited.

[Matt HarringtonParticipant @mattharrington87221]

Dave,

I've had a couple of ML10's in the past and the only bit that annoyed me was the tailstock – where I always caught my knuckle on the withdrawing thread. I extended one handle and that was cured. If you plump for an ML10, try and get one with the integrated motor mount. It makes it much easier to mount the lathe on a benchtop should you go that route. (and also the later 2 speed (10) and longer bed. I think the serial numbers start VSL……

Matt

[Douglas JohnstonParticipant @douglasjohnston98463]

I have been using a Speed 10 for the past 25 years or so and find it just great for most of the work I do. It's no use for big stuff but it is very good for its small footprint. It has the quality feel that all Myfords have and the ones with taper roller bearings in the headstock seem to go on for ever with very little maintenance.

I suspect the reason for there being a number of good examples about is that probably most of them have spent there life in a hobby workshop or technical lab where they have had an easy life. They would be considered too small for any commercial company that would give them a hard life.

Doug

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Jeff Allan on 28/07/2018 15:51:45:

Posted by Andrew Johnston on 28/07/2018 11:17:37:

Posted by Jeff Allan on 27/07/2018 22:17:28:

…

Andrew, you're making a great point which has made me think….

Do we go too far in rejecting the new for the old, or do we go to far in rejecting what’s old for the new? Are we in leisure/hobby time, are we craftspeople, or are we at work?

…

'Do we go too far in rejecting the new for the old, or do we go to far in rejecting what’s old for the new?' While I agree that's an interesting question, it's not engineering!

If you want a tool do work, it's age only a hint. No matter how good it was when new, an old lathe might be worn out.

There are strong reasons for celebrating old achievements. Steam locomotives, craftsmanship, vintage cars, and other bygones are deserving in their own right. They are stuffed full of history and cultural references. Pride of ownership is a consideration. Some enjoy pristine workshops full of little used, well-maintained, quality equipment. Bit like owning the Mona Lisa!

That's not what I want from the hobby at all; my workshop is a goddamned mess and, although I take care of them, I'm not sentimental about tools. As long as it does what I want and is affordable, I'm happy.

When buying equipment, I suggest being clear in your own mind about why you want it. We are not equal. Developing a good understanding of what you mean by 'Value for Money' and 'Fit for Purpose' allows more balanced decisions. My point is it's best not to accidentally mix nostalgia and utility together when buying tools. Two ways people come unstuck:

• By focussing on a classic brand-name, ignoring condition, and ending up with a second-class machine, expensive doer-upper, or scrap. (This may not matter if the machine is for show!)
• Expecting Swiss tool-room quality from a Far Eastern hobby machine costing 10 – 15% of an industrial machine, seeing nothing but shortcomings, and ignoring pragmatic benefits.

There is a straightforward simple answer. All you need is an unlimited budget!

Dave

[Engine BuilderParticipant @enginebuilder]

The ML10 is a great machine and capable of turning large stuff. Have a look at the end of this video turning a very large flywheel.

I would not swap mine for a ML7.

[richardandtracyParticipant @richardandtracy]

Jeff,

When I chose my lathe it was with a view to using it for most machined components while building a yacht from scratch. The two biggest items I needed to machine were the prop shaft (25mm diameter) and the winch castings. Looking at commercial winches of the right capacity, the drum diameter was 6", so I reckoned 7" swing over the saddle was what I needed when machining up my own castings. The prop shaft diameter meant a spindle bore of 25mm, so that was the minimum. I ended up with the Warco version of the Clarke 430/Sealy 27/Draper something or other/Chester Model B. This had a 12" swing & 26mm bore and did all the threading etc needed. And last year I bought a 2nd one for £600 to convert to CNC. So they are available at the same price as a Myford 10.

I honestly suggest that before you buy a machine, or even think about what machine you get, you think long and hard about what you want to do with the machine, then add a reasonable percentage to the size to make life easier when machining. Machining right on the capacity limit of a machine doubles setup time and trebles the machining difficulty compared to having an inch or two spare room.

Hope my comment trigger a thought or two. Buying a machine is too expensive to go into half cocked and needs to be right, especially as it's money being diverted from the project boat and needs to pay for itself to justify the purchase at all.

Regards

Richard.

[Anonymous]

Posted by Engine Builder on 29/07/2018 10:30:05:

……………….Have a look at the end of this video turning a very large flywheel.

I bet that spindle drive accessory would make unicorns look two a penny!

Andrew

[Anonymous]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 29/07/2018 10:24:33:

'Do we go too far in rejecting the new for the old, or do we go to far in rejecting what’s old for the new?' While I agree that's an interesting question, it's not engineering!

It most definitely is engineering. The best engineers adopt new techniques and equipment, but they also know, and use, old techniques and equipment when appropriate.

I'll bet my workshop is even more untidy than yours, and mine has spread into the hall and kitchen.

Andrew

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Andrew Johnston on 29/07/2018 10:44:50:

Posted by Engine Builder on 29/07/2018 10:30:05:

……………….Have a look at the end of this video turning a very large flywheel.

I bet that spindle drive accessory would make unicorns look two a penny!

Andrew

.

It does, however, highlight an interesting topic:

I suspect that many buyers of LARGE lathes are actually driven by the need for capacity in one dimension … either length, OR diameter.

Woodworkers are reasonably well-served by 'bowl turning' lathes, and 'cue lathes' … but the equivalent engineering lathes are relatively scarce.

MichaelG.

[Anonymous]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 29/07/2018 11:13:32:

I suspect that many buyers of LARGE lathes are actually driven by the need for capacity in one dimension … either length, OR diameter.

Woodworkers are reasonably well-served by 'bowl turning' lathes, and 'cue lathes' … but the equivalent engineering lathes are relatively scarce.

Long bed lathes are not uncommon, but I'd agree that lathes for large diameter short work are much rarer. However, I suspect that vertical borers tend to be used instead. If nothing else it's much easier to place and fix a heavy workpiece on a flat bed than faff around trying to do it on a vertical faceplate. I had enough trouble with my traction engine final drive gears and flywheel, and they were only a few tens of kilograms.

Andrew

[Jeff AllanParticipant @jeffallan91301]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 29/07/2018 10:24:33:

Posted by Jeff Allan on 28/07/2018 15:51:45:

Posted by Andrew Johnston on 28/07/2018 11:17:37:

Posted by Jeff Allan on 27/07/2018 22:17:28:

…

My point is it's best not to accidentally mix nostalgia and utility together when buying tools. Two ways people come unstuck:

• By focussing on a classic brand-name, ignoring condition, and ending up with a second-class machine, expensive doer-upper, or scrap. (This may not matter if the machine is for show!)
• Expecting Swiss tool-room quality from a Far Eastern hobby machine costing 10 – 15% of an industrial machine, seeing nothing but shortcomings, and ignoring pragmatic benefits.

I've always felt that this separation of rational and emotional is easy but not in my/our long-term best interests. I agree completely that accidental sentimentality is at best blinding and often dangerous. The American Philosopher Edgar Arthur Singer, and people after him like C W Churchman recognised the difficulty of reconciling these worlds, and they established processes recognising the need to make conscious our less logical choices. In practical terms I find that I can be rational analysing the engineering merits and demerits of a situation and appreciate the clarity, for example, of your points, but I also believe that in all human endeavour there is emotion, spirit, soul, whatever we want to call it, for if not then we would not be human. So, it also matters to me that I like the machine, and it can be high-tech or low-tech, as I appreciate good design. I also appreciate the stories where a lathe has been part of somebody's life and they describe why and how it was part of their life. Other people's sentimentality helps inform my choice, just as much as knowing and comparing specifications and functional realities.

On the definition of "Engineering" I would say it's wider and more encompassing, but I'm also happy to accept yours, particularly in a Model Engineering group, where I am being made to feel most welcome.

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Please make sure that the lathe has steadies with them The cost of ML10 steadies is astronomic!

You can make your own one, the Drummond guys do that sort of thing

It's a relatively simple (and big) project for a very very useful accessory

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Andrew Johnston on 29/07/2018 10:44:50:

Posted by Engine Builder on 29/07/2018 10:30:05:

……………….Have a look at the end of this video turning a very large flywheel.

I bet that spindle drive accessory would make unicorns look two a penny!

Andrew

Well, you could always do what Burt Munro did and take a hacksaw to the lathe bed to create a suitable gap…

[richardandtracyParticipant @richardandtracy]

Jeff,

One further reminder – probably not needed, but you never know – remember the lathe is for bits for the boat. Getting a lathe is not the end of the purpose. It's all too easy to get diverted by the machinery enthusiasts and forget about the primary purpose, and myopically look at the lathe without remembering what it's for.

Regards,

Richard.

[Fowlers FuryParticipant @fowlersfury]

Matt H. wrote "If you plump for an ML10, try and get one with the integrated motor mount. It makes it much easier to mount the lathe on a benchtop should you go that route".

……and it brought back the wretched memories of trying to line up the separate motor mount, with drive belt in place, reaching over the ML10, trying to hold it all in position whilst marking out the bench for the fixing holes ~ a right PITA. I fully endorse his recommendation !
<><><>
Looking in the xls index of Model Engineer articles 1959-98 there are many refs to the ML10 and accessories.
For example:- No. 3771, 156, "Some Modifications to the Myford ML10 Lathe".

Edited By Fowlers Fury on 29/07/2018 12:15:45 (Tried to insert table from xls, didn't work)

Edited By Fowlers Fury on 29/07/2018 12:18:15

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

Posted by richardandtracy on 29/07/2018 12:04:45:

Jeff,

One further reminder – probably not needed, but you never know – remember the lathe is for bits for the boat. Getting a lathe is not the end of the purpose. It's all too easy to get diverted by the machinery enthusiasts and forget about the primary purpose, and myopically look at the lathe without remembering what it's for.

Owner of a Myford seems to be the definition of 'Model Engineer' for a number of people.

[Matt HarringtonParticipant @mattharrington87221]

Posted by Fowlers Fury on 29/07/2018 12:15:13:

Matt H. wrote "If you plump for an ML10, try and get one with the integrated motor mount. It makes it much easier to mount the lathe on a benchtop should you go that route".

……and it brought back the wretched memories of trying to line up the separate motor mount, with drive belt in place, reaching over the ML10, trying to hold it all in position whilst marking out the bench for the fixing holes ~ a right PITA. I fully endorse his recommendation !
<><><>
Looking in the xls index of Model Engineer articles 1959-98 there are many refs to the ML10 and accessories.
For example:- No. 3771, 156, "Some Modifications to the Myford ML10 Lathe".

Edited By Fowlers Fury on 29/07/2018 12:15:45 (Tried to insert table from xls, didn't work)

Edited By Fowlers Fury on 29/07/2018 12:18:15

Ha! exactly – I remember it well!

Matt

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Andrew Johnston on 29/07/2018 11:02:13:

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 29/07/2018 10:24:33:

'Do we go too far in rejecting the new for the old, or do we go to far in rejecting what’s old for the new?' While I agree that's an interesting question, it's not engineering!

It most definitely is engineering. The best engineers adopt new techniques and equipment, but they also know, and use, old techniques and equipment when appropriate.

I'll bet my workshop is even more untidy than yours, and mine has spread into the hall and kitchen.

Andrew

I agree – we are violently in agreement. I hope I didn't come over as anti-old, because that's not at all what I meant. Rather I think worrying about old vs new isn't a good place to start when solving a technical problem.

For example, Carbide and HSS aren't one-for-one alternatives. Choosing one rather than the other is about fitness for purpose, and the decision should be emotion free. Ditto metric vs imperial.

In my view engineering is about effective results, not about nostalgia, gee-whizz gadgets, paint schemes, trade-marks, or hyped up sales material involving scantily clad young ladies.

Truth is most of my workshop is 'old-fashioned' in the sense that LBSC would have been at home in it. No doubt he would admire the radio, pocket calculator, dro, VFD and rpm counter. But apart from a few carbide tips, the way I cut metal is traditional, which is why Sparey, Westbury, and others remain valuable. Doesn't stop me lusting after CNC or scantily clad young ladies though! Chance would be a fine thing…

Dave

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

This seems to have generated a lot of comment. I have an ML10 and an ML7. I purchased them NOT because they were Myford's. The reason was because they were cheap and in good condition. I would have purchased just about any alternative lathe, provided they were in good nick and cheap!

Andrew.

[Jeff AllanParticipant @jeffallan91301]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 29/07/2018 14:04:18:

Posted by A

I agree – we are violently in agreement. I hope I didn't come over as anti-old, because that's not at all what I meant. Rather I think worrying about old vs new isn't a good place to start when solving a technical problem.

Agree to violently agree!

[Matt HarringtonParticipant @mattharrington87221]

Here you go:

**LINK**

If you are after a 10, this has all the right bits!

Matt

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Currently £525 after one bid with 4 days to go! Anyone care to guess how much the winner will pay for it? We could organise a sweepstake.

The seller allowing inspection by appointment is encouraging, likely means there's nothing nasty to hide!

[Jeff AllanParticipant @jeffallan91301]

Just to close on this post. ML10's seemed to suddenly go up in price on the various 2nd hand markets. Looking back on eBay prices, hard to really tell, but prices seemed to spike during July/August. I also got slightly put off by the cost and availability of accessories and spares. For example, as somebody pointed out, the price of steadies about four times the price for ML7's.

In the end I bough an ML7 local to me in Sheffield. A Dad's machine that needed some tlc but which had a lot of accessories and which was one of the later machines with all the various Myford improvements. Reasonable price, no long travel to pick-up, and a nice provenance, so happy chap.

The purchase didn't have stand but I wanted to be compact on space and have found a sturdy welded frame. It did have a tray, but unfortunately no Riser Blocks and these seem like hen's teeth. I can make something up for bed adjustment, but nicer to have the original versions, so I'm on the hunt.

Also doesn't have a reverse switch, but I'm trying not to buy anything else until I've confirmed the need and found I can't do without it.

It's going to take a few weeks to set up and get going with it, but aesthetically I find the machine really pleasing. When I saw the prices of ML10's going up I looked again at all the other import versions of small lathes, but the Myford romance held out. Let's see in practice if this works out.

Thanks to everybody for their previous input.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Sounds like a good result, Jeff … Thanks for the 'closure'

MichaelG.

[Author]

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