Milling – what do i need

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

Reflecting on the original question, I’ve realised that for perhaps 80% of my milling jobs I use one of a pair of big 11.5mm slot drills.

 

Why?

 

1 – they were cheap, being an ‘odd size’

 

2 – they are big and stand up to abuse

 

3 – being slot drills they are easy to sharpen on my not-exactly-a-quorn grinder setup ( about 4 minutes to put a sharp edge back on)

 

4- a nice long edge for cutting/profiling with the side of the cutter

 

5 – comfortable at about 700 rpm and run OK at >1000rpmfor light cuts

 

6 – a good fit in my 12mm ER collet

 

It’s only a small minority of jobs where you need an exact radius or width so having a robust cutter for facing, steps and profiling is handy but these are small enough to use ovetr the whole width of the table (unlike the big, ugly insert face mills that come with many milling machines).

 

Neil

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi Stub

I have a couple of long series 11.5mm end mils, bought cheaply because they were an odd size.

 

The easy way to cut a slot is to drill and ream (or use a size end mill) the holes at either end of the slot.

Gut the middle out with an undersize slot drill.

Mill each side with an undersize end mill or slot drill.

Result is a decent slot.

 

regards David

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Nobody has mentined Clarkson type endmill holders. Are they out of favour now? Is their very positive positioning of the mill not necessary after all?

[Harold Hall 1Participant @haroldhall1]

I would like to assure David L that in no way do I think it is practical for a workshop not to have a vice as part of the mill’s essential kit. I do though have to admit that I often bias my articles towards using the machine’s table, or an angle plate, to balance the advice often given that appears to imply that the vice is the only method of securing the workpiece. The number that have included an angle plate in their list for this thread I think proves my point.

I accept that a vice is often a faster route to the completed part but positioning a part in the vice can be a problem, when angles are involved, or repeat parts are being made which ideally will make use of the X and Y table stops. Also, a vice does not deal easily with tall parts that will have to stand way above the vice’s jaws.

On the other hand, simple fences fixed to the angle plate can easily control angle and position, making angles and repeat parts easy to deal with. Also, it is often helpful to load the angle plate away from the mill with the non working half in the bench vice and the working face horizontal.

Often, keeping the working surfaces of an angle plate and its fences clean for subsequent parts is much simpler than within the confines of the vice’s jaws, probably with parallels to remove and clean.

One problem I see with regard to using the angle plate is that many milling machine owners seem to rely on the commonly available clamping kits. These, in my opinion, are far to large for most home workshop activities, even for use on the machine table, but are a definite a non starter when it comes to the angle plate and other such items as a rotary table, or the lathes faceplate. And are useless as fences on the table or angle plate, much too bulky.

My list of essentials for the home workshop milling machine is therefore.

1. Cutter chuck, ER type, or those which take screwed shank cutters (my preference)
2. Two or three of the largest endmill that your chuck will hold and one of each smaller size.
3. Securing components, tee nuts, studs, clamps etc. Make your own, those in the sets are too large for most people.
4. Vice. If you are only into small steam engine type projects a substantial drilling vice may do, perhaps with a longer keep plate added to stop jaw lift.
5. Angle plate
6. Dial Test Indicator (not a dial indicator)
7. Method of mounting item 6. Again consider making your own as the basic stand does not give sufficient scope for positioning the indicator in difficult locations. A few swivel joints and some differing length of bar are all that is required. You will need some means of mounting it off the column or the mill’s head.

Other items, slot drills, rotary table and a dividing head, etc. etc. can be obtained as the need arises.

Finally, David L gives as an example for the need for a vice, using it to hold items for drilling. In this area, I would never suggest not using a vice, except for small holes in large parts, as in my estimation the drilling machine is the most dangerous item in the workshop if not used properly. I have, the luxury for most people, of a economy X Y table on my drilling machine on which, a vice is permanently fitted to one end and the clear table at the other end used for such items as a rotary table, dividing head or large workpieces clamped directly to it.

Harold

[jason udallParticipant @jasonudall57142]

may I add

SAFTEY SPECS

[David LittlewoodParticipant @davidlittlewood51847]

Harold,

 

Thanks for the very clear and detailed words. I don’t think we differ, my comments were based on Terry’s attribution to you of the idea that a vice was not necessary. I have read most of your work and know that you are really saying that a vice is not always the best method – and I totally agree, in fact I also have made or acquired any number of other ways of holding. My concern was that a beginner requesting advice might be misled.

 

Incidentally, when using my milling vice to hold several small parts in turn for precise drilling or light milling, I find that very good repeat precision can be had by locating the edge of the part in line with the vice jaw end by aid of a small piece of gauge plate (actually one of my home-made parallels). For a part requiring ultra precision I would of course use an edge finder, but most things – fastening holes etc. – don’t need this level of precision.

 

If you make many very small parts, a little sub-table finger clamp which can be held in the vice is extremely useful – mine is one of these which also makes a nice little learning job for a beginner to the milling machine.

 

BTW, I have to say that since acquiring a milling machine 25 or so years ago I never use my pedestal drill except for woodwork; the milling machine is so superior in every way. The addition fo a 3-axis DRO makes it even better.

 

A couple of other items to add to the wish list – not perhaps as vital as Harold’s 6, but shall we say to put in the next year’s budget estimates, are: (7) an arbour for slitting saws, (8) one or two 45 degree bevel cutters, (9) a few good countersinks (not the same as (8), the angle is different), (10) a very small drill chuck for holding sub-1mm drills (A grown-up chuck often cannot hold these, or is difficult to use with them).

 

Hope that resolves the matter and makes it clearer for the OP.

 

David

Edited By David Littlewood on 31/01/2012 23:11:01

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Hi Harold,

 

I apologise if I misrepresented you, I must have misunderstood when you said:

 

” As will be seen, a vice is not as essential as is often considered” in your ‘Complete Milling Course’, and:

 

“The reader will no doubt be surprised when I say that in my estimation, the machine vice is far from essential for the vast majority of tasks undertaken on the milling machine. It’s popularity is, I feel due to it’s apparent ease of use, a situation that leads to it’s use when other methods would better meet the requirements”, in your article in issue 137. Although you did say later in that article that you would always have one despite your reservations.

 

I thought that David was looking for essential things that he should have to enable him to use his machine and I was not suggesting that he should not have a vice, merely that, if on a very tight budget he could initially manage without.. My inference was that he could manage with a modified budget vice such as the ones you have shown in articles in MEW such as the, modified inexpensive drilling vice as you showed in your article in issue 137 or any of the excellent vice conversions that you have shown over the years, adding a more substantial one to his basic equipment as funds permitted. . After all a good quality proper milling vice of suitable capacity can be a very pricey item, almost as expensive as a small milling machine itself. I was merely trying to point out that while a milling machine is simply a useless lump of metal without cutting tools or a system to hold them, initially a vice is not essential as much work can be done without. There are even some design for home built ‘vices’ where the jaws are mounted directly on the table

 

Again Harold, I apologise if I have misrepresented, misquoted or misled others regarding your intentions. That was not my intention,

 

Best regards

 

Terry

Edited By Terryd on 01/02/2012 05:09:35

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Sorry-dual post

Edited By Terryd on 01/02/2012 05:46:05

[Harold Hall 1Participant @haroldhall1]

Many thanks David and Terry for your comments.

 

Appologies not needed Terry but thanks!

 

Harold

[Harold Hall 1Participant @haroldhall1]

Second thoughts, perhaps it should be me Terry appologising for not have made it clearer in the first place. However, many thanks for giving me a mention, much appreciated!

 

Harold

[VersabossParticipant @versaboss]

After seeing that someone complained – rightfully – about someone writing in another thread “course’s” instead of “courses”, may I take the same line and ask if Mr. Hall really uses “it’s” 3 times in one sentence instead of “its”???

> It’s popularity is, I feel due to it’s apparent ease of use, a situation that leads to it’s use > when other methods would better meet the requirements

Sorry for my complicated phrasing; writing simple is more difficult (for me) than putting the finger on blatant grammatical errors

Greeting, Hansrudolf

[David LittlewoodParticipant @davidlittlewood51847]

Terry,

 

You said “David was looking for…”; I wasn’t looking for anything, I was answering Russel’s question. I have a lovely pair of Emco milling vices!

 

Hansrudolf,

 

You are of course quite correct – the correct usage of “its” and “it’s” is one of the trickier quirks of the English language (which is not short of the latter!). At least we don’t have four cases of the definite article in three genders and a plural though…

 

David

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

All of the ‘things you cannot do without’ have been covered but if I could add the thing I would hate to be without it would be a Digital Read Out at least on the X and Y. It absolutely transforms the operation of your mill. Pocket holes, pitch circles and various drilled holes can be machined with so much less fuss. You really can do without one if your budget will not stretch but you will enjoy your mill more for spending the money.

 

Have fun Martin

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Posted by David Littlewood on 01/02/2012 12:22:50:

Terry,

 

You said “David was looking for…”; I wasn’t looking for anything, I was answering Russel’s question. I have a lovely pair of Emco milling vices!…………………….

 

David

 

Sorry David

 

I was really referring to Russell Just getting my proper nouns mixed up. Just a typo really,  I have a lovely pair as well,

 

Best regards

 

Terry

Edited By Terryd on 01/02/2012 13:37:09

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

Hansrudolf,

 

I was speaking on a professor yesterday, one who speaks Finnish and Polish, and he was saying how the thing about English is that what really happened is we inherited a dozen languages and rather tha absorbing eth grammar of any one of them, we dispensed with grammar entirely. Any apparent rules we have nbow are just retro-fitted to try to explain what we do. This is why word order, for example, is often unimportant in English. Ultimately in English there is only one rule:

 

“In the interests of clarity, all other rules can be broken.”

 

Neil

[russellParticipant @russell]

thanks everybody for all the comments…although of course i did actually buy the mill quite some time ago now, the thread suddenly gained new life.

 

I have learnt a couple of things so far…

1. R8 tooling isn’t as common is Oz as i expected..

2. A vise is definitely useful, i agree there are some cases where other approaches are better but the vise is quick where it can be used.

3. i will have to invest in some more tooling, ball nose, pointed end mills and a couple of slot mill.

 

i have managed a cylindrical square, my 1915 drummond lathe is more accurate than i expected!. Now to finish an old angle plate, then some parallels, boring head, and rotary table of some description.

-russell

 

 

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