Mill spindle trouble?

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi There

This thread has been tidied up.

When someone asks a question please respond to the question, not add irrelevant comments about trading standards.

I expect you know who I mean.

Any more comments like that will result in one weeks suspension.

regards David

Edited By David Clark 1 on 09/01/2012 15:52:08

[WolfieParticipant @wolfie]

“If there are any issues then you’ll get various noises and vibration.”

 

Well would you believe it. After all that there was a fault, one of the spindle bearings disintegrated this afternoon. The importer is now running round trying to find me some decent bearings.

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

“disintegrated”….sorry but I cant stop laughing…not because of the fact that its a competitors machines…but the fact that this is the first time I am hearing of such an event.

The original bearings – if 6206-2RS or ZZ, should be “decent”. There are no small “pisspot” bearing factories in the world who can make a bearing of this diameter. Only larger more reputable manufacturers can make this bearing. Assembly could be an issue, but then you probably couldnt have done the work you have described earlier!!

Is it possible that the way you used the machine…described earlier…or something else you could have done “as a beginner” could have created the damge to the bearings?

Yes I know I am a seller, and yes I would say this wouldnt I ???. The fact that I come from a bearings background doesnt count for jack when I am saying this, does it ???

 

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

I just spoke to Harry at Amadeal. He explained that there could indeed have been an assembly issue but difficult to say for sure. I also understand that they are doing what they can to put it right.

 

At the time of responding, I felts that the words “disintiegrating” and “decent” were a bit too strong. The fact that the bearings are Chinese, does not make them less decent…especially for this size of bearing. If there is an assembly problem, they could damage the bearings.

 

So sorry, please accept my apology for my last comment.

 

Ketan at ARC.

Edited By Ketan Swali on 09/01/2012 17:49:42

Edited By Ketan Swali on 09/01/2012 17:53:59

[WolfieParticipant @wolfie]

Well I dunno about assembly problems etc but this looks very much to my admittedly inexperienced eyes as a poor bearing and it also looks fairly disintegrated.

 

I should mention that this is not the main spindle but the one that carries the gear wheels so is unlikely to be caused by anything I’ve done at it especially as the plastic gear wheels are all OK. I understand they are made that way to minimise any more major damage happening.

 

And yes Amadeal are trying to sort me out with some new ones and have been helpful in that way.

 

Edited By Wolfie on 09/01/2012 18:43:12

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Ahh, I see now.

 

This is one of the smaller bearings…..Not the main spindle bearings 6206-2RSs. As the thread started off referring to the main spindle, I thought you were still referring to the bearings on the main spindle when you said that “one of the spindle bearings disintegrated this afternoon”.

 

I did not know you were referring to the smaller bearings located on the shaft near the main spindle. Smaller diameter bearings are made by many small factories. Still, I honestly haven’t seen anything like that before! Interesting..

 

Good Luck!

 

 

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Well whatever the reasons are for failure, you should get some sooper dooper VIP service since there’s a whole bunch of us zoned in on this thread.

 

If there’s a manufacturing/assembly problem it usually shows up in the first week or so of use.

 

Computers are the same, if a new computer board bundle survives the first week of use it usually goes on for years.

**** happens

 

As an additional precaution, after the bearing is replaced (and preferably every bearing in that shaft is replaced), run the machine through EVERY possible configuration, making it do work in each configuration.

 

GL

Edited By Ady1 on 09/01/2012 20:47:33

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

That is not an unusual disintegration of a bearing, I have had several small bearings where the flash welding on the cage has let go.

One time it was the main bearing in an Ariel 350 M/c.

Larger bearings have rivet cages so are better.

I did not like the look of the two ball bearings shown!

Once the cage goes then the balls lump together and disaster.

The answer is replace with decent quality bearings from a known source and keep spares handy.

 

Clive

[WolfieParticipant @wolfie]

To be right I don’t really need VIP treatment, as long as its fixed in a reasonable time then thats best I ask them to do.

 

Ady’s right, **** happens and that can’t be helped. The supplier is already on to it and they did offer to exchange it but being as they are down south somewhere and I’m in the north east its probably easier to send the bearings and hope I’m up to the job of fixing it.

[David HaynesParticipant @davidhaynes53962]

Wolfie, all this messing about with bearings is a bit frustrating for you I know, but as I said before, we would be paying so much more for the machines if we bought European and it should soon be all top dollar. Amadeal seem to coming up with the goods. Finding the light in a gloomy saturation, one benefit is that you now know more about the workings of the machine than you would if it hadn’t failed and yes, you will be up to the job of fixing it!

Dave

[WolfieParticipant @wolfie]

It would be nice to have the option to buy a European or even better British machine of similar size but I didn’t find it.

 

I am in the position of having a workshop with a lathe in it that is probably older than me that is in great condition and a milling machine that arrived last Friday that has a failed component.

[David HaynesParticipant @davidhaynes53962]

Hi Wolfie,
After deciding that I wanted to buy a lathe and then settling on the popular British ML7, it took me well over a year to find the right one. I wanted to save having to buy a lot of extras. Some had taps & dies and so forth but these extras where in poor condition. The one I finally got had a good selection of extras, was fairly close to home and the right price. We had a 50th birthday for it in 2009 but I once heard said that when contemplating a used Series 7 Myford, its age is irrelevant. The Myford ML7 was made for over 30 years at the rate of about 3900 a year so there is a better chance of finding this than many other used machines. There are other good British makes and Lathes.co.uk is a good guide. Finding a British milling machine has, I have found, been more difficult. After considering all my options, my research and advice seeking has ended up with me ordering a far eastern machine but I am confident that it will be okay. Good luck with the new workshop you have and the milling machine will work out fine once the hiccups have settled!

Dave

Edited By David Haynes on 10/01/2012 07:58:42

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Lathes are lathes and Mills are mills as David H has said above.

There were very few decent British mills made anyway.

Tom Seniors or Harrisons probably closest to the top of the list but these had shortcomings.

The TS did have a quill feed but it was very rare forcing most users into a compromise. The Harrison always seemed to me to lack daylight on the bed i.e. not enough headroom.

 

We can’t really include Myford in these as all they were is what’s available now, a far eastern machine with a prep service but at 10 times the current prep service price.

 

Many years ago I went this same route and because of price restrictions and space, ring any bells here <g> ? I went with a Dore Westbury kit. Affordable and it taught me a lot about machining assemblies instead of one off’s .

It was very good for it’s day and later got replaced with one of the first large round column mill / drills into the country which after a bit of fettling turned out to also be a good machine given the round column limitations.

 

Ironically there wasn’t a lot of different in price by the time between the two.

 

If not for the imports I’m afraid the hobby brigade in this country would still be using vertical slides on lathes.

 

As regards Wolfies problem there is something queer here. From getting a new machine in three days and minimal use a bearing has let go. Even if it was the crappiest bearing known to man and on a shaft that does not carry direct cutting forces it would have lasted longer than that.

 

The initial problem turned out to be unfounded but now this one has been aired in public. It would have been far better to contact the supplier first. Hugh at Amadeal has now been shot into the lime light and people are already making their minds up before the guy has chance to do anything.

 

Indecently I don’t know Hugh, never met him, never spoke to him, never had any dealings with him but I would say the same about any of the dealers we have in this country , regardless. [ Except perhaps one from up north ]

 

John S.

[NJHParticipant @njh]

Hi John

 

You say:-

 

| “Indecently I don’t know Hugh….”

 

 

But of a typo there I think – I hope you mean incidentally !!!

 

Regards

 

Norman

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

Posted by NJH on 10/01/2012 10:22:49:

Hi John

 

You say:-

 

| “Indecently I don’t know Hugh….”

 

 

But of a typo there I think – I hope you mean incidentally !!!

 

Regards

 

Norman

 

 

It’s infectious too!

 

Only John knows what he really means

 

 

Martin.

 

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

I think I mean incidentally but now I’m not sure ??

I’m better at butchering big rotors than word smithing.

John S.

[WolfieParticipant @wolfie]

One or two other people have mentioned the fact that a problem has been aired publically on an internet forum before the dealer was contacted. Actually thats not true, I was in contact with them from almost the word go and then that evening related my experiences here.

 

I’m afraid that is a consequence of the modern world. Internet forums and social networking mean that such things are broadcast much quicker and more widely than before. Not necessarily always good, you may have seen in the news the unfortunate family of the asian lad shot in Manchester found out about it over Facebook before the police had a chance to tell them.

 

However in the case of consumer relations it can only be a good thing. The onus is upon any supplier of anything to provide a reasonable product and act accordingly if this is not so. I am pleased to report that Amadeal are fully aware of the situation and are dealing with it satisfactorily. This fact also wouldn’t have been as widely reported without me having done so on an internet forum. So well done them.

 

Think about it, I’d have gone to my local SME meet in a couple of weeks and related my experiences as probably would anyone else. Its just that our ‘club’ on here is more widely viewed.

 

Incidentally talking of computers, it probably doesn’t fit here as all of you reading this have to be using a computer, but I’m surprised about how many of the brilliant engineers I have met at my club who are clearly technically excellent are reluctant to take up the use of computers and the internet. I’m an ex truck driver but now an IT engineer (currently unemployed ) and I’m coding a website for my club but when I suggested emailing our newsletter or even (shock horror) downloading it from a website there was a fair amount of opposition. It must be a generational thing, I am the second youngest in the club by quite a long way.

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Going back to slot cutting, when you said “plunge” was that using the manual quill feed or fine feed? Though one can happily use the manual feed for an ordinary drill, I would always use the fine feed with a slot drill.

[WolfieParticipant @wolfie]

Happy to report that mill is back in operation, taking on all that I’m (carefully) throwing at it. I’m happy, Amadeal dealt with it well and well done them.

 

I’ve discovered I can fit bearings

I did mean fine feed John. I only use the quill to move it over distance and not at all for milling.

[Anonymous]

Posted by Wolfie on 10/01/2012 11:51:12:

 

Incidentally talking of computers, it probably doesn’t fit here as all of you reading this have to be using a computer, but I’m surprised about how many of the brilliant engineers I have met at my club who are clearly technically excellent are reluctant to take up the use of computers and the internet. I’m an ex truck driver but now an IT engineer (currently unemployed ) and I’m coding a website for my club but when I suggested emailing our newsletter or even (shock horror) downloading it from a website there was a fair amount of opposition. It must be a generational thing, I am the second youngest in the club by quite a long way.

 

Actually I think it’s more of an attitude thing. My mother’s an avid user of email and the internet, and she’s 82.

 

Regards,

 

Andrew

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