Mechanical Marvels

[mickParticipant @mick65121]

[mickParticipant @mick65121]

Did anyone else sit in open mouthed amazement at the craftmanship on display in BBC4's program about 18th century automata last night? Its repeated on Thursday at 11.30pm. If its past your cocoa time, its one for the recorder.

[jason udallParticipant @jasonudall57142]

Glad of any coverage.
But too much face time for presenter maybe too much “soci-politics” and not enough machine…but like I say glad of any kind of coverage. Love the swan and little fish.

[Anonymous]

Well the presenter is a professor of the history and philosophy of science. There was a half-hearted attempt to explain cams, but sadly not much more. What would have been really interesting is to know how the articulation of the swan was done. The writing and drawing automata were amazingly smooth, I wonder how many prototypes were made before they worked? The programme also glossed over how the chess playing automaton worked, was it working to a fixed algorithm, or could it make decisions, and how did it know what move its opponent had made?

While I would agree that the automata had stored programs I think the presenter over-egged the comparison with the modern computer, in that he seemed to miss the point that a computer can make decisions based on input data, and can therefore follow a different path every time.

Overall, the programme had just enough to keep me watching, but it could have been so much more interesting.

Regards,

Andrew

[speelwerkParticipant @speelwerk]

Sadly we have no BBC4 on the cable in the Netherlands, but as far as I know the chess automaton is/was a person hiding in it. Niko.

[Michael MallesonParticipant @michaelmalleson22793]

The writing boy was stunning, how on earth did he work out the forms of all those cams. Too much presenter's face is an unavoidable nuisance these days, but the content was fascinating.

Mike.

[Anonymous]

Niko,

Funnily enough I had a vague recollection, when watching the programme, that there was a hidden chess master involved, but I don't recall it being mentioned in the programme. May be it would have got in the way of the central thesis being pushed by the presenter.

Regards,

Andrew

[jason udallParticipant @jasonudall57142]

Andrew ..the presenter did show the space for the chess player..including but not mentioning the “mimic ” chess board in the base. .the visable chess board was transparent enough to see the moves from below
That said, the player would still have to be good enough to beat all comers..

[jason udallParticipant @jasonudall57142]

And yes the drawing boy gave me a moment of head scratching…until you thing it through…just like the writing boy…you make a machine to”write” your cams from a “simular ” if not the actual same armature and driving the output arm as your input device…it might only mark the cam but there you go…

[Anonymous]

Posted by jason udall on 04/06/2013 10:31:12:
Andrew ..the presenter did show the space for the chess player..including but not mentioning the "mimic " chess board in the base. .the visable chess board was transparent enough to see the moves from below

That must have been when I got bored and flicked to the next channel to watch a bit of 'Morse'.

Andrew

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Found it on the BBC player

Mechanical marvels clockwork dreams

**LINK**

[Ed DuffnerParticipant @edduffner79357]

While I would agree that the automata had stored programs I think the presenter over-egged the comparison with the modern computer, in that he seemed to miss the point that a computer can make decisions based on input data, and can therefore follow a different path every time.

 

With respect I'm not sure I'd agree with you there Andrew, sorry . A computer will give output based on what it is programmed to do. Certain input will yield defined output as predetermined by the program that is being run. It cannot really make a decision.

It's like if you run a CNC program to machine a roughing cut, a finishing cut then drill a hole. The computer has to follow the code. It can't decide to drill the hole first then do the other cuts at will.

Edited By Ed Duffner on 04/06/2013 14:12:49

[jason udallParticipant @jasonudall57142]

Ed..what Andrew is referring to is called conditional branching. .and my cnc lathes do that too!

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Andrew Johnston on 04/06/2013 09:50:00:

What would have been really interesting is to know how the articulation of the swan was done.

Andrew

.

Have a look around the Bowes Museum site, and the link via this page.

Funnily enough we went to the Bowes on Monday.

MichaelG.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

The cams for writing are rather easy. Just connect a stylus to X & Y arms whose other end holds a pen that marks on a disc rotated by clockwork. It draws the cam profiles for you. Body etc movements are the more difficult to determine.

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

I remember watching Blue Peter as a boy. They once featured an automated tiger mauling a british soldier, made to entertain a Maharajah. they featrured it in the annual as well.

Don't forget the Greeks had many automata, mostly temple related, even coin-operated wine dispensers!

Neil

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

The thing I found most interesting about the writing Boy was that the paper moves to position each letter. … This makes the mechanism much simpler than it would be if his arm was moving; but the deceit is not too obvious.

I wonder if that was the design inspiration for the HP7470 pen-plotter ?

MichaelG.

[Bob PerkinsParticipant @bobperkins67044]

I watched this a couple of days ago I enjoyed the machines but was unsure of the presentation. Some things that came across to me were the fine line between the artist and the engineer. Secondly I was interested in the interview with the curator of the Greenwich observatory and the description of thread forming process. He delicately showed a minute screw that was made with a minute die. I think it would have been interesting to see the craftsmanship used in making the die and some of the other tooling that was used. Still good to see this type of programme on tv. Well done BBC. Hey this sounds like points of view – Robert Robinson sunday tea time??

Bob..

[chris winnanParticipant @chriswinnan11478]

I too really enjoyed this show.

BBC Iplayer is useless in my location, but I did manage to find it on a number of private torrent trackers. I still have invitations if anybody is looking.

If you enjoyed this then I would also like to recommend

Great Experiments – Number Crunching (BBC) (3rd December 1985) [VHSRip (DivX)]

**LINK**

Another great show is this vein is:

NHK – Last Artisans – Edo Robots

Mechanical dolls are often seen as the forerunners of Japanese robotics. The art form became a staple of festivals and other public events, under the patronage of the Owari-Tokugawa family. Even today, a ninth-generation doll maker Shobei Tamaya loves to surprise the crowd with original creations.

**LINK**

On the Mechanical Marvels show, I thought that one of the most interesting comments was from the Curator of Timekeeping at the Royal Observatory in Greenwich who stated clearly that these kind of exqusite micro mechanisms simply do not grow organically. While they may not yet fall from the boughs of fruit trees, they can be conjured up very quickly and effortlessly with a 3D printer. In fact, the whole situation has changed dramatically with the advent of distributed additive manufacturing. Suddenly we can print extremely complex devices, just as early computers allowed scientists to enormously complex mathematical problems that would never have been dreamt of before.

I wonder how long it will be be before we see complex automata coming off 3D printers?

[Author]

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