Maybe CNC

[Raymond AndersonParticipant @raymondanderson34407]

Hello all,

This is really a 2 part question so here is the first part,

I have been thinking about buying a cnc mill [but also keeping my Chester Lux] and have narrowed it down to either a Syil x7 or a Tormach [I would really like a Deckel Maho or a Mori seiki but unless the lottery numbers come up it's a no no] so has anyone any info re the Syil and Tormach ie build quality ,accuracy, service back up ect

Now to part 2, I can get [through the brothers employers] at a very good discount the CAM programme Siemens NX has anyone in the model engineering scene used such And what would be the biggest difference between the NX and the far more affordable Mach1 as even with a great discount the NX cost a small fortune, far, far FAR, more than the Mach1 would the NX not be suited to the hobby scene? I already have a fully liceenced copy of the 3 d Cad programme Solidedge ST3 also by Siemens/UGS so am hoping the NX would be suitable.

Regards,

Raymond

Ps, I have no knowledge /experience of anything CNC.

[Raymond AndersonParticipant @raymondanderson34407]

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi Raymond

The Mach3 controls the machine, I suspect the Siemens NX is for creating programs, different programs for different purposes so you need both.

regards David

[Another JohnSParticipant @anotherjohns]

Raymond;

You are where I was a year or so ago.

What I did:

– got a Seig KX1 milling machine without the software;

– put together a LinuxCNC box to figure it out;

– started writing in "G" code;

– now doing some "2.5D" drafting.

For me, building up from the basics worked very well, and was relatively inexpensive, and I understand it inside and out.

One of our machinists here at work told me years ago that most of the machining he does is just programmed in G code. And, they have some of the best machines available to them in all of Canada, so I took that as advice that I should really try to understand.

Another JohnS.

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Don't get confused by Syil's numbering system.

The X7 is smaller than the X6 and a hell of a lot smaller than a Tormach.

if you have this sort of money to spent then buy the Tormach, you won't regret it.

John s.

[Mark Foster 1Participant @markfoster1]

take a look at sheet cam .It works well with Mach . but it is not 3d

[Mark Foster 1Participant @markfoster1]

Its not the package but the support youneed. Its easy when you know how But getting there is the hard bit .Without support its way to steep .

[Raymond AndersonParticipant @raymondanderson34407]

Thanks to all for the reply's. John, I am leaning now toward the Tormach but I still have not decided on the CAM programme. The Siemens NX is 5 axis so would that rule it out for use with the Tormach? I really like the Solidedge ST3 so would like to stick to Siemens if possible for the Cam side of the equation. I have seen the NX in the flesh so to speak at the brothers employers but it runs the Deckel Maho's, not a hobby machine like I would be looking to purchase. Maybe I will ask the millers and see what they think.

Regards,

Raymond.

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Siemens NX will work on the Tormach, you just don't use 5 axis, only 3.

What might rule it out is cost. NX is big boys toys and checkup on annual maintaince, it might be more than the Tormach

 

Full 3D CAM and low cost do not work hand in hand unfortunately. Tormach have a deal with Sprutcam, a Russian company to sell their software at a discount to owners. Should be a link on their site.

There is also an offer currently running on a UK CNC support site for Bobcad V24 which is one release behind but still supported and works out cheaper.

 

**LINK**

 

Edited By John Stevenson on 08/06/2012 20:12:58

[Anonymous]

Hi Raymond,

Probably the first thing to do is work out what you want/need to make. That will give you an idea of the size of machine and complexity of software required.

I have no knowledge of the Syil machine. However I have been running a Tormach PCNC1100 with 4th axis in my workshop for the last three years. Overall I have been very pleased with my machine. I've made hundreds of parts in plastics, aluminium, cast iron, gauge plate and stainless steel. The machine has always done what I asked. I have had a few minor issues, but Tormach's support has been excellent, fast response and quick delivery from the US if required. In terms of accuracy I'd say the Tormach wasn't far off the normal jobbing professional CNC workshop. I've made prototypes of complex heatsinks that have then been replicated by a professional CNC company and have had the opportunity to measure both – not much difference. We rejected the professionally made heatsinks because they weren't up to scratch (didn't follow my advice), but that's another story.

I have not used NX, but I'd urge caution, as others have already mentioned. I use a lot of high end CAD for work (Mentor Graphics/Cadence/ProEngineer) and while the programs are incredibly versatile they are also extremely expensive, difficult to learn, and probably overkill even for small companies. I use Alibre for 3D CAD and Visualmill for CAM. I'm not convinced that Visualmill was the correct choice, but I'm not planning to change at the moment. If I was looking again I'd seriously consider OneCNC for CAM.

I did write a couple of articles on the Tormach for MEW. a while back If you don't have access to them PM me and we'll see what we can arrange.

Regards,

Andrew

[Tony JeffreeParticipant @tonyjeffree56510]

One of the important considerations when buying an expensive machine is what kind of support is offered by the dealer, by whom, what it costs, and how quickly you can expect it to be available. I don't know how Tormach support their machines in the UK, but I was told by one of the chaps on the Syil stand at Harrogate that they farm out their support to a guy that does CNC support as a part time/2nd job (he is an airline pilot apparently!) and he charges £25/hour. Quite what happens if you want some support & he is somewere in Foreign for the next few days wasn't explained to me; also I didn't ask at the time whether there is any element of support "bundled" with a new machine, e.g., to install/set it up.

Regards,

Tony

[Raymond AndersonParticipant @raymondanderson34407]

Thanks guys,

John s, good spot about the maintainence costs re NX , although I can get a very good discount even then it is still a serious amount, the maintainence would be at full price which is as you thought very costly. Also the millers advised against the NX on account of it;s complexity for a beginner like me, they suggested I start with a simpler software and work up to [if ever, the NX]

Andrew, I think it will be the Tormach once I get the CAM programme area decided upon. Although I am fully conversant with the CAD that I use [Siemens SolidedgeST3] the Siemens NX7/8 is a whole new [and very complex] ball game I will have to do some more research and probably get some of the millers to assist me with the learning curve.

Thanks to all for their assistance,

Raymond.

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Raymond,

All is not lost as the Solidedge ST3 will generate files in STL or Step or IGES format that any decent CAM system will be able to handle so that part, the CAD can still be retained.

John S.

[David ColwillParticipant @davidcolwill19261]

Why not consider the posibility of buying a new manual machine and converting it. There are some financial savings to be made although these aren't great and you end up with a machine that you fully understand and can fix and maintain as required. There is such a wealth of information and support out there that this is possible even if you're not too hot at electronics.

As for CAM although I do have full 3D CAM available I tend to do Just about everything on Desk CNC which costs about £150 ish and is a doddle to use. I have looked at loads of CAM packages and have tried demo versions of many of them . I would steer clear of spending any serious cash until you are absolutely sure that you are getting something that you are happy with and have seen, used and made to work.

Just my two pennyworth

[Raymond AndersonParticipant @raymondanderson34407]

John, Yes, I really think that is the best way forward, get a good CAM system that is suitable for my limited/ no NON existant cnc experience I have decided on the Tormach that is a shoe in but I still have not decided on the CAM side of the equation, but it will not be the NX [far to powerful and complex for my needs.I will have a look at Sprutcam and Visualmill for starters Its good that I can retain my Solidedge ST3 as even that cost me a small fortune but I get on well with it..

David, thanks for your input but as I know zero about cnc I really could;nt begin to think about building one although I see your point about knowing your machine as" I would have built it." I think it would be beyond me just now. And yes the NX would have been [even with a discount] a serious amount, in fact a big chunk more than the Tormach but seeing the NX in action must have "turned my brain". and if it was the right way forward then the NX it would have had to be.

Thanks Guys,

Raymond.

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