Kity Woodwork Machine Switch

[Clive B 1Participant @cliveb1]

Hi Everyone

Can anyone advise what would be the best setup for a switch or switches for my woodworking machine.

Just to put everyone in the picture I’m referring to an old Kity Combination Machine, the type where the individual machines were fixed to a wooden table and a motor placed in the middle of them with the NVR switch attached to the top of the motor.

I've used the machine for a good many years with this setup but I’m getting a bit older and don’t really fancy having to lean over running machines in order to turn the motor off, just to add the switch is still working perfectly but I would like to change the setup if I can, I suppose a switch near each machine would be ideal or one which could be moved about if thats possible.

I’ve included some pictures just to show the present set up.

My thanks to anyone who can come up with some suggestions.

[Clive B 1Participant @cliveb1]

[davebParticipant @daveb17630]

Fit a DOL starter switch at the edge of the bench. Connect the existing plug lead from the motor switch to the OUT terminals and the original plug lead (or a longer one) to the IN terminals.

Edited By daveb on 02/01/2020 21:14:50

[David George 1Participant @davidgeorge1]

How about extending the wire from the switch to the motor and unscrewing the box from the motor. Then you can attach the switch to the table with a clamp near to the side that you are working on. Also you could put an emergency stop on the box just in case.

David

[Ian ParkinParticipant @ianparkin39383]

The original switch is a nvr so Daveb,s suggestion won’t work.

i would replace the switch with a contactor and then place as many fixed stop switches around the machines as you feel you need

then have a start and stop switch on a pendant that you can place next to the particular machine you are using

The idea of having fixed stops is so you can be sure you can get to one in a panic if the pendant moves

Edited By Ian Parkin on 03/01/2020 06:16:42

[EmgeeParticipant @emgee]

Posted by Ian Parkin on 03/01/2020 06:14:59:

The original switch is a nvr so Daveb,s suggestion won’t work.

i would replace the switch with a contactor and then place as many fixed stop switches around the machines as you feel you need

then have a start and stop switch on a pendant that you can place next to the particular machine you are using

The idea of having fixed stops is so you can be sure you can get to one in a panic if the pendant moves

Edited By Ian Parkin on 03/01/2020 06:16:42

This ticks all the boxes.

Emgee

[egaParticipant @ega]

Clive B 1:

I have sent you a PM.

[Clive B 1Participant @cliveb1]

Hi Guys

Thank you all for taking the time to reply to my question, in particular Ian Parkin’s suggestion which I quite like the idea of.

I’m assuming if the start and stop switch was on a pendant it would need some sort of support. Which would be the best way to go a lightweight chain or a thin catenary wire?

As far as the contactor is concerned, I assume I would need to be looking for a 230v 12amp single phase one being fully enclosed with cable gland outlets or failing that purchase a box enclosure and fit the contactor in it just to keep all the dust out.

Can anyone suggest a suitable one or send a link of one which would do the job?

Would a wiring setup similar to the attachment work only with more stop buttons?

[EmgeeParticipant @emgee]

Clive

Best to buy an enclosed DOL starter with an overload to match the motor full load current as stated on the motor plate.

Wiring to the remote stop start station/s will be shown with the starter paperwork but the stop circuit will pass via the overload so it cuts power off with overload conditions.

As Ian says best to mount the lock off stop buttons in fixed positions where they would be easily found in the event of an emergency.

It is best to wire the live via all contact pairs so link from the 1st set and o/l to the 2nd set and then to the o/load, Neutral in via L3 on contactor and then o/l.

Emgee

Emgee

[Ian ParkinParticipant @ianparkin39383]

Clive

you can wire in as many stop switches as you desire in series with the stop switch in the diagram.

its always best to put an overload in as well with a motor (although one wasn’t there with original switch)

I didn’t mean a pendant coming down from the ceiling (though nothing wrong with that) just a small box with start and stop buttons on a trailing wire and a magnetic base so it can be stuck somewhere convenient whilst you use the part of the combination machine you need

[Clive B 1Participant @cliveb1]

Ian

I must admit when you said pendant, I immediately thought of a pendant type ceiling light .

Emgee’s suggestion of DOL starter sounds a good idea, all fully enclosed to keep the dust out including overload protection built in.

I don’t know if there is such an animal as a single phase DOL starter or if there are only three phase ones, although I’m sure a three phase type could be wired as single phase.

I have to admit I haven’t looked into starters at all yet.

Ian you said there was no overload protection with the original switch, just thought I’d ask can you tell that from the photos I included? and just out of curiosity what is the thing where it says do not lift the motor by this?

Thanks again Clive

[Clive B 1Participant @cliveb1]

Emgee

You said it is best to wire the live via all contact pairs so link from the 1st set and o/l to the 2nd set and then to the o/load, Neutral in via L3 on contactor and then o/l.

I’m sorry to be a bit dim but you have lost me, I’ll do a small wiring diagram of what I think and hopefully you can correct it where I'll no doubt have it wrong.

I will get the motor off because I can’t see the spec plate properly as it’s stuck in the middle of all the machines, hopefully it will state what the full load current is.

Having said that, in the photo of the switch it says In 12A MAX, is that not the same thing?

Thanks

Clive

[EmgeeParticipant @emgee]

Hi Clive

The 12A stated could be the max rating of the switch contacts at 230v AC, I don't think it is motor FLC.

With a 230v AC supply you need to get a starter with a 230v coil and an overload that has a range that your motor FLC falls into.

If you go ahead with buying a DOL starter and o/load I will send a connection diagram if not included with your purchase.

Emgee

[Ian ParkinParticipant @ianparkin39383]

Clive

the round cylinder mounted on the side is a capacitor which kicks the motor to start in the right direction.

that motor you have is a French one ..they always seem to be able to do things electrically differently than anyone else.

the switch is a contactor with a rotary start switch and it only relies on the plug fuse for overload protection

a modern starter has a thermal adjustable trip to protect the motor better.

its best to look after that motor as it will be difficult to replace.. as its double ended ?

[Clive B 1Participant @cliveb1]

Ian

Thanks for telling me what the cylinder/capactor is for, I must admit I thought the motor rotation direction was derived from the windings, but then I don't know much about electric motors other than they can turn clockwise or anti-clockwise.

I also uploaded a picture from the Kity booklet and it looks like the motor is equiped with a thermal overload no volt release.

I take your point about the double ended motor drive, I'd probably stand a better chance of the lottery than locating a replacement motor, so yes I will continue to look after it.

[Clive B 1Participant @cliveb1]

Emgee

Iv'e taken the motor off so I could get a good look at the spec. plate and typical it doesn't say a blind thing about FLC or in the booklet about the motors (as in the picture I sent to Ian)

All thats on the plate is as shown in the picture below.

Any ideas on my best way forward with that one?

I guess I can have a look at some DOL starters and get in contact with the sellers or manufactures and hopefully they will be able to advise if their product would be suitable for my needs, having said that the motor itself is only 1.5HP, so I don't think the street lighting will dim on start up serge.

I still haven't got around to doing a sketch of how I think it should be wired, but I will post it on here and hopefully someone if not yourself can give me the thumbs up or let me know if I will end up blacking the whole of the UK out .

[Ian ParkinParticipant @ianparkin39383]

Your thermal overload may only be thermostat in the windings it’s hard to see from your photo how many wires dive into the motor itself

your current is marked as 6.9 so you need an overload say about 7.5 or so

[Clive B 1Participant @cliveb1]

Hi Ian

The current is marked on the plate as 6.9A it’s anyone’s guess if that’s the start-up current, so as you say 7.5 should be ok.

Anyway, I’ve been having a look at the starter in the picture advertise by Axminster Tools £54.50 of which they do one rated at 1500w so should be good for 1.1Kw

I’m not 100% certain it comes with overload protection, so I’ve sent them a message asking a few questions including how big it is.

I don’t really want something that’s too massive if I can help it.

[EmgeeParticipant @emgee]

Clive, see spec below, make not shown so may be an import from China which could be bought for £30 on ebay.

• Adjustable overload protection: Order number 340192 for 6A to 8A overload (suits your motor)
• Can be used with additional foot switches, interlocking micro switches or thermal overloads
• 175mm high x 100mm wide x 130mm deep

Emgee

You will also need enclosed stop/start stations, number to suit your needs so factor those into the total cost.

Edited By Emgee on 07/01/2020 20:03:17

[Clive B 1Participant @cliveb1]

Emgee

I don’t suppose you know the seller’s id as I’ve tried looking under overload protectors and motor starter switches and haven’t had much luck, I know it must be there somewhere I'm just not looking in the right place.

I'm not sure how to look something up on ebay under order number and as for being made in China.

I’ve just done a check on the one I posted a pic of namely NHD sold by Axminster and where is it made Taiwan.

I guess in the end one just has to take a chance, its hard work trying to find electrical stuff made in the UK at an affordable price.

Thanks again

Clive

[EmgeeParticipant @emgee]

Clive, search for this item number: 331208499128

230v coil

5.5-8.0 A overload

Emgee

 

added details

Edited By Emgee on 07/01/2020 22:41:47

[Clive B 1Participant @cliveb1]

Emgee

Its certainly cheaper than the one on the Axminster site, I only messaged them today so it will be interesting to see what answers they come back with.

In the meantime thank you for the link, have you any thoughts?

Would the 5.5 to 8 amp be suitable or the 7 to 10 amp, I’m no expert.

[EmgeeParticipant @emgee]

Clive, 7-10 is outside the flc of your motor, IMO best stay with the 5.5-8.0 Amp.

Emgee

[Clive B 1Participant @cliveb1]

Emgee

That’s good enough for me I’ll more than likely get the 5.5 – 8.0 amp NVR unit shown.

Incidentally I’m still awaiting a reply from Axminster Tools.

I’ve been having a look at a Motor Water Proof Machine Drill Switch ON/OFF Push Button for 10A 220/380V £5.69 (item No: 143265824264) on ebay or same thing on amazon TOOGOO(R) AC 220/380V On/Off Water Proof Push Button Switch KAO-5 for Drill Motor Machine £3.29

Would it be possible to wire either of the above switches in circuit with the NVR unit or would it be a case of once the machine has been switched off by any of the stop buttons the only way it can be restarted is via the start button on the NVR unit, I’m guessing that is what the case will be, any ideas??

If it can only be restarted by the NVR unit I may as well buy the GLOGLOW 660V 10A Emergency Stop Switch £6.89 on amazon or 10A 660V Red Sign Mushroom Emergency Stop Push Button Switch Station Yellow XKUK £5.48 on ebay item No: 133115256527.

I assume 660V will also be good to go on 230V??

Thanks again for any advice you can give

Clive

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