Karger DL-1/53

[CHRISTOPHER MILLS 1Participant @christophermills1]

I have a new lathe, finally obtaining a German Karger DL-1/53, tool room lathe, one of my first loves when I began looking at lathes – the only one I saw before this one was unaffordable at £1500

These were made 1950s/'60s, to some degree sharing styling with Smart & Browns, and Holbrook C10s

It came with lot of extras, fixed steady, almost all its change wheels, and five cam-lock chucks

With a variable speed motor, on a mechanical selection method, its selector stalk is similar to a CVA

I think it has a top speed in the 1100s

It has a three phase motor, a full coolant pumping system, and an externally mounted oil tank and pump (it is the square box to right of the headstock plinth

It needs some work, but is in basically pretty good order, under the oil and grease

Does anybody out there own another Karger, or has owned one in the past? I am trying to set up a Karger Owners' Club

Karger, having an umlaut over 'a', pronounces as Care-grrr

Here she is, bought out of a warehouse in Wisbech

With twin plinths, astonishingly, for a medium sized lathe, it has a 3 MT tailstock quill

Here is a rather Happy Christmas made in 1950s' Berlin

Chris Mills

 

 

Edited By CHRISTOPHER MILLS 1 on 22/12/2016 13:34:33

[CHRISTOPHER MILLS 1Participant @christophermills1]

German Tool room lathe

[Nick_GParticipant @nick_g]

.

That looks a nice sturdy, well engineered workhorse.

Nick

[CHRISTOPHER MILLS 1Participant @christophermills1]

Thanks Nick

Weight is estimated @ 600 kgs

External oil tank is huge

It has a third power bar, upon which you can cut feed from the spindle, via switchgear in a box on tailstock end of the bed

Tool post is on a ratchet system

Chris

[Phil WhitleyParticipant @philwhitley94135]

Eyup he's at it again, looks like a nice machine Chris, and well equipped by the sound of it, and now you will need a 25ltr drum of engine cleaner, some rags, and a nice stiff brush! Seasons greetings to you and yours sir! See you sometime next year!

Phil

[CHRISTOPHER MILLS 1Participant @christophermills1]

A Happy Christmas to you, Cath and the kids, Phil

Chris

[Chris Evans 6Participant @chrisevans6]

That should clean up very nicely, washing up brushes and degreaser work well.

[Big BurnerParticipant @bigburner]

I have exactly the same lathe (had it since 1989). Despite being small it is a tool room lathe rather than a model makers lathe, capable of making some serious chips. The only limitation really is the amount of grip offered by the flat belt to the head stock. I have fitted mine with a dickinson T2 tool post front and rear. When I build my new workshop I would like to supplement it with a larger Karger type 300/900, if I can find one.

[Mike Berry 2Participant @mikeberry2]

Hi Chris,

I've just found this forum and to my surprise even somebody who owns a Karger lathe … Better off, a Karger DL1.

I own the same Karger DL1. I have some general Karger lathes material which might be interesting for you. I'd be very happy to share some experience and some general knowledge regarding our DL1s.

Regards,

Andy.

[CHRISTOPHER MILLS 1Participant @christophermills1]

 

Hello Big Burner and Mike Berry 2,

Sorry, I have been too busy of late to keep up – it is great that there are two other Kargers out there

I have begun restoring mine, and would like to hear further from you both

I look forward to photographs

Mine has a virtually complete set of change wheels, five chucks, and a fixed steady rest

We have a few repairs to make, louvred aluminium cover to front headstock plinth got smashed by previous owner, and I am missing change gears cover door – I would love to see pictures of one of these, as I cannot work out how it attached

I do have a good portion of Owner's Manual, which a German friend kindly translated – 16 pages – I do not know how much is missing

Best wishes

Chris

Edited By CHRISTOPHER MILLS 1 on 19/03/2017 09:08:25

[Mike Berry 2Participant @mikeberry2]

Hi Chris,

No worries. I'm happy to see the thread is still alive.

I'm posting some pics of my DL1. It's a barn find, oily rag condition, however, the general condition doesn't look bad at all. The ways are a bit rusty, but it can be cleaned without any greater effort (I've already tried it). There was a mulfunction on a cog wheel in the apron which supplies torque for the power feed. I've already made a new one (I think the original bronze wasn't too strong for the wheel, hence the grinded cogs, so I used alluminium-bronze alloy instead, which is really tough; it should be good now).

My plan is to do a complete overhaul of the lathe, painting (returning it back to the original grey colour), change all bearings and mainly scrape the ways (I need to measure it properly first though).

I think every DL1 really deserves some serious TLC as it's a really beautiful, well made and very precise lathe. I really love the machine.

Apart from this DL1, I have also a DL3 which is a big brother of our DL1. It's a very nice machine too. Heavy and firm, pleasure to work on.

I definitely do not want to claim that I know a complete history of Karger company (which I really don't), but my knowledge tells me that Karger was nationalized after the II. WW, since it fell into the Russian ocupation zone and was turned into a WMW company – an Eastern Germany company. As far as I know, Karger didn't exist after the WW II anymore.

I really think that your Karger DL1 is a pre-war machine. Do you have any production plate on your lathe telling the year of production?

My DL3 is in fact a Karger DL3, but it was made after the war, in 1953 (it has the plate), but it's already full WMW product. It looks exactly the same as a pre war Karger DL3 though. They had just changed the badges, and that was it. Otherwise any respective part of the lathe is completely interchangable with the real Karger DL3's parts. It even carries a similar name: WMW DL3.

I can offer a Karger's production catalogue in PDF format, if you were interested. It's a catalogue from right before the war. I'd be very interested in DL1 user's manual. My catalogue describes DL1 generally (dimensions etc), but it's not a manual (no maintanance instruction etc).

I'm up for setting a Karger club up! Count me in!

Andy.

[CHRISTOPHER MILLS 1Participant @christophermills1]

Andy,

Many thanks – yours is virtually identical to mine, and these, I believe, are late in the production order

I do not have the covering shroud to right of apron

My lathe's plate, too, reads "DL1/53"

What might be the curved cut-out at base of headstock plinth? Mine has this, too

There is some company material in Berlin Archives

Mine is in the same green, but originally cream, to which it will go back

You are welcome to Owner's Manual information, if you can get me a personal email for you, I will forward it

By all means we should set up a Karger Owners Club – the only other Karger stuff I can find in the ether is a Czechslovakian owner – machine is posted on You Tube – but there is a huge language barrier between English and Czech

Chris

 

Edited By CHRISTOPHER MILLS 1 on 21/03/2017 07:50:40

[CHRISTOPHER MILLS 1Participant @christophermills1]

Andy,

Sorry, I have just noticed that our respective compound slide housing and tool posts are completely different

Mine has a four way tool post with a ratcheting system, which enables quick change from one side to another

Chris

[Mike Berry 2Participant @mikeberry2]

Hi Chris,

The difference in our tool post is just a bit different accessory that our lathes were equipped with, based on demand. I have the old fashion, a single tool clamp because my tool post is the excetrical one which is very convenient for thread cutting. This specification didn't offer the ratcheting four position tool post, as you have. It just enables you a very quick move of the tool out of the cutting, returning back at the beginning of the thread (or anything else you're cutting) and then you engage it again. I have it pictured in the catalogue I told you about. Both our version are correct.

I don't know what exactly you mean by the curved cut-out … Do you mean the cut below the lever next to the Pintsch Oel schield? The lever that changes the direction of the auto-feed shaft rotation, is it what you mean?

I was also trying to find some DL1s on YouTube, but I found only this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkE8J37mbJg. But this guy is Polish (99% – based on his name). Would you have a link to the Czech person?

Can you please send a picture of your plate saying DL1/3? That would be interesting for me to see your version.

Your lathe has also a little bit different the left bottom part with the electric switches. Your ones are on a separate panel, facing towards the operater, whereas mine are facing left and the panel is a part of the whole left leg. I guess Karger used to do some minor modification during the DL1's production life …

Anyway, I will try to send you a private message with my email and I'll be very happy to share my material with yours.

Andy.

[CHRISTOPHER MILLS 1Participant @christophermills1]

Andy,

Many thanks – I am not with my Karger presently, but I will photograph the label next time I am

The cut out I mean is right at floor level, left hand side of front headstock plinth, there is a semicircular cut out, as if something ran through it, a pipe or cabling

It seems to be a feature of Karger plinths, and I cannot imagine what they were for

At some point, I need to copy the change wheel cover door, as I lack one entirely

Chris

[Mike Berry 2Participant @mikeberry2]

Hi Chris,

Now I understand the cut … To be honest with you, I have no idea what it's for. I just know that it makes it more complicated to roll the lathe on the bars when moving it . The same cut is on my DL3 on both legs, just on the outside part of them. Really don't know the reason.

No problem, I can take detailed pictures of the change wheel compartment cover, as well as its dimensions for you. Just let me know.

Did you get my private email?

Andy.

[Mike Berry 2Participant @mikeberry2]

Hi Chris,

did you get my private email?

Andy.

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

The invaluable http://www.lathes.co.uk site has many interesting pictures and details of this company and some of its products.

Perhaps the twin cutouts on the legs is to facilitate resting on axles (with wheels) to help with moving, much like machine skates?

Edited By KWIL on 24/03/2017 09:55:55

[CHRISTOPHER MILLS 1Participant @christophermills1]

 

KWIL

Many thanks – brilliant thinking – I am sure you have the right answer here, because there is another on the tailstock plinth, which runs in the opposite plane, so that you could wheel it around – presumably, the carrier wheels would have been castors?

Perhaps, it would have been a simple cruciform shape – a cross of two scaffold poles, and three castors?

Chris

 

 

Edited By CHRISTOPHER MILLS 1 on 24/03/2017 10:23:32

[Andy PughParticipant @andypugh44463]

Here is another, on eBay.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lathe-Single-Phase-/122621417338?hash=item1c8cce577a:g:7iQAAOSw-WtZa7-p

(Thought it was a Holbrook at first)

[CHRISTOPHER MILLS 1Participant @christophermills1]

Andy,

Many thanks – When I first began, I mixed these up with Holbrook 10C's – I loved both

My Karger here posted was actually made much earlier than I had reckoned, in 1938

Were there Holbrook C10's, sharing this headstock styling, at that point?

Did Holbrook take this styling section from Karger?

Chris

[Andy PughParticipant @andypugh44463]

I don't know when the C10 was first made. Most of what I know about lathes comes from lathes.co.uk and that site is a bit vague on the C-series and doesn't mention the H-series at all.

I bought my Minor largely because I thought it was pretty. I tried to keep it pretty when I converted it to CNC.

[Robert SaboParticipant @robertsabo17197]

hey,

i just found this thread and i need some help over my dl1, if you guys are still around…..

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