Help a noob

[Christian SprogøParticipant @christiansprogo42613]

Hello there. Been lurking This forum for a White, and now im jumping in with questions.
Been messing around with projects my whole life. I know how to operate welding (tig/mig/mag), stills and such, but mostly done my projects on a mill, and my hours behind a lathe, is rather Limited – maybe 5 hours total. Now i want to learn it Been doing Research on ze net, and now i ask you.
I want to buy a lathe, but wich One. I know om not the first to ask This question and Ive seen some og the threads here.
Ive narrowed IT down to 4 or 5 different ones, size awalibility and price considered. Here goes:

Emco Compact 5
Emco Compact 8
Optiturn 1503v
Bernardo hobby 250.

Ive looked at All the chinese clones allso – but anything above the c0 – c1 size is too big.

Pros and cons. The Emcos Are workhorses, but both used. The 8 comes with a Milling attachment. The Bernardo is expensive considering plastic gears and All. The Optimum is in top of my list, its new , it can do threads, metal gears, brushless motor, and PERFECT specs.

Whats best

[Christian SprogøParticipant @christiansprogo42613]

Finding the right lathe.

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

… 'The Optimum is in top of my list, its new , it can do threads, metal gears, brushless motor, and PERFECT specs'.
…
I think you've already made you choice ! .

George.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Christian Sprog� on 25/04/2017 18:45:48:

Ive looked at All the chinese clones allso – but anything above the c0 – c1 size is too big.
[…]

The Optimum is in top of my list, its new , it can do threads, metal gears, brushless motor, and PERFECT specs.

.

Correct me if you know better, but … I thought the Optimum lathes were 'Chinese clones'

Have a look at the very long thread started by Brian John.

MichaelG.

.

Link: http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=110038

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 26/04/2017 19:27:21

[David Standing 1Participant @davidstanding1]

The first two questions are always – what do you want to achieve from the machine, and what is your budget.

These will help lead to your answer.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

The Optimurn lathes seem to be branded Chinese types with the benefit of German input to the quality process. They're on the pricey side and that doesn't guarantee perfection. There's a thread on this forum where an Optimum owner hit problems.

I don't recognise the Bernando but it looks Chinese too.

I worried about buying a Chinese mini-lathe, C1 size, for ages. In the end I chose a supplier with a reasonable reputation and bought one.

It had plastic gears that weren't a problem. It was not the best lathe in the world; for guaranteed quality you have spend serious money, perhaps a Cowells. However, it met my expectations and I learned a lot from it, including that a C0 would have been too small. I thought it was good value for money.

My advice is that the small Chinese Lathes are similar and that it doesn't pay to worry too much. Go for one that's the right size for you, ideally with a bigger motor, and with a decent set of extras. Quality varies. I've not had anything Chinese that didn't work out of the box, but it all benefited from minor tweaking.

If you get a bad one you will want to send it back. Then it's the reputation of the supplier that matters, so try and choose one you can trust if the purchase goes wrong.

Enjoy!

Dave

[Christian SprogøParticipant @christiansprogo42613]

Thnx a Lot for your answers. Im not doing anything big at Home, maybe the odd 8-10mm axle, mostly aluminium, brass, maybe mild steel, as i have Access to bigger and more precise lathes (CNC allso), so its more to learn the basis on, and i dont think Ill ever need More than a 100mm between centers.
Just Saw that the Optimum is indeed made in china – cooled med down there. Its still the most expensive, and the absolute max i can spend. Allso stumbled over the G?de model gmd 400 , looks OK, but Read a post where a Guy had many trouble with IT, and i need something that Works without too much modding. Maybe the used Emco hobby 5, is more my thing He he – oh ye, the trouble i have…Decisions decisions

[charadamParticipant @charadam]

Ah, but there is the absolute delight of hitting the "BUY" button still to come.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 26/04/2017 20:23:18:

The Optimurn lathes seem to be branded Chinese types with the benefit of German input to the quality process. They're on the pricey side and that doesn't guarantee perfection. There's a thread on this forum where an Optimum owner hit problems.

 

I didn't see any sign of German quality when I sorted that Optimum lathe out for Brian John. Very poor quality control all round. I would not buy one, based on that single experience.

Personally I think the C0 sized lathes, or micro-lathes are a bit lightly built even for home hobby use. I've a mate who bought an unbranded Chinese C3 size, the ubiquitous standard "mini-lathe" and it is a much more robust, much more useful lathe all round. That bit of extra size does count.

Edited By Hopper on 27/04/2017 03:59:20

[Thor 🇳🇴Participant @thor]

Hi Christian,

I have an old Emco Compact 8 and I am very satisfied with it. If the Emco is in good condition you will get a good lathe. The Bernardo hobby 250 and Optiturn 1503v are smaller lathes than the Compact 8, I ended up buying another and bigger lathe in addition to my Emco.

Thor

[Henry ArtistParticipant @henryartist43508]

I have a Sieg C0 and it's an absolute joy to use especially when making small parts in brass, aluminium and mild steel. I added an Emco QCTP which allows me to use 8mm indexable tools. For some jobs it is quicker and easier to use than my C3.

Like any tool if you can work within its limitations you will be happy. Trying to go beyond the limits of a machine leads to frustration so think carefully about what you want to achieve.

[john carruthersParticipant @johncarruthers46255]

Hello Christian, if you can squeeze it in I would go for a c2 or c3, maybe used?
Loads of spares and mods are available.
Bear in mind you may need another 30% to 50% on top of your budget for tooling and accessories

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Christian Sprog� on 26/04/2017 22:32:16:

…

Maybe the used Emco hobby 5, is more my thing He he – oh ye, the trouble i have…Decisions decisions

Buying used is a different game entirely. What's on offer varies considerably, and much depends on how the lathe was treated in the past. Some lathes have been worked hard, abused or badly stored. You wouldn't want to buy the lathe from my old school! On the other hand, there are plenty of lightly used and well maintained examples about. Old hobby lathes are no different: some have been mistreated, many others were much loved.

The problem for a new purchaser is how to tell the difference between an absolute crock and an absolute gem. Before owning and using a lathe, I couldn't tell. Now even though I'm much more confident, I no kind of expert. I expect someone else will add to the list but:

• Buying second-hand, you need to see the lathe working. Ideally a beginner would take someone experienced with them.
• Any visible damage, repairs or wear? Bed wear may be visible, but what about the half-nuts and bearings?
• Are the slides loose, tight or bind at one end?
• Does the lathe cut tapers, stall or make odd noises?
• Any signs of electrical problems such as a hot motor or odd smells?
• Do all the controls work?
• Are all the gears and other accessories present and undamaged?
• Is the price reasonable for what you get?
• Quite important I think; in the event you see things that need fixing, can you get spare parts etc. at reasonable cost?

I'm not trying to put you off buying second-hand; lot's of people do it successfully and are very pleased with what they get. Just look carefully at the lathe before spending your money.

I'd be grateful if experienced forum members could tell us what they look for before buying second-hand. I'm especially interested in why they would walk away.

Dave

[Christian SprogøParticipant @christiansprogo42613]

Ohhhhh , completely ran over the Sieg c0 lathe. Have Been lurking for months now, and what i have learned so far, is that it looks like the majority og the lathes avalible , Are All made in China. Im having a craving for buying the used Emco 5, the 8 is too big for my workspace, dont know if the c0 is too small, and the c1 clones here, Are allmost as expensive as the Optimum. But for half the price of the Optimum, i can get a Sieg c0 + the top slide + drill Chuck + some tooling and delivery. But the c0 lacks auto fred.
Boy oh boy, This is Harder than i thought,

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

For what my advice is worth, if you can, buy the largest that will fit your budget and space (Again, don't forget to allow for tooling costs, although some of these can be spread over time).

Someone said to me "You can do small work on a big lathe, but not the other way round"; and you are bound to become more ambitious as time goes on.

Have no experience of either, but faced with the choice of Optimum or a used Emco, based on Brian John's and Hopper's experience on this Forum, I would plump fore the Emco!

Not all UK suppliers import the Seig CO, and C2, if you chose to go down that route.

Although he does not stock or sell them Ketan at Arc Euro Trade is very helpful, and stocks spares for the C2.

Arc do sell the larger Seig machines.

HTH

Howard.

[Christian SprogøParticipant @christiansprogo42613]

The issue with wanting to do bigger Work, is easily dealt with, as i have anytime Access to bigger Machines, both lathes and Mills . So IT looks like my decision need some finetuning, boiled down (after the horrifying reading on the Optimum) to even fewer options. I think the c0 is a tad to small, and the c3 wont go in my workshop at Home. The Amadeal cj18 popped Up. Can get it shipped to my door, for roughly the same as an c0 – still half of what i have to Pay for the Optimum, wich leaves room for tooling (allthough i have quite a Collection, considering i havent got a lathe) – so right Noe its either a used Emco 5 (There is allso a hobby 8 – but i think its too big) or a brand new cj18 Decisions decisions.
I must thank you All for your time and inputs, they are invaluable to me Allso excuse any bad English, its not my native tounge, and i have a Danish Spelling phone , so it sometimes changes Words, into meaningless other Words .

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

No need to apologise for your English Christian; no problem at all, and it's much better than our Danish!

If you want a small European lathe and can afford it, the Cowells has an excellent reputation and it comes with a proper specification. Ceriani, who advertise on this forum, are made in Italy. Unfortunately not much is known about them – I've never seen one reviewed or come across anyone prepared to comment.

Dave

[Henry ArtistParticipant @henryartist43508]

Posted by Christian Sprog�27/04/2017 10:35:41:
Ohhhhh , completely ran over the Sieg c0 lathe. Have Been lurking for months now, and what i have learned so far, is that it looks like the majority og the lathes avalible , Are All made in China. Im having a craving for buying the used Emco 5, the 8 is too big for my workspace, dont know if the c0 is too small, and the c1 clones here, Are allmost as expensive as the Optimum. But for half the price of the Optimum, i can get a Sieg c0 + the top slide + drill Chuck + some tooling and delivery. But the c0 lacks auto fred.
Boy oh boy, This is Harder than i thought,

Most of the parts I make on my C0 are less than 25mm diameter and less than 50mm long. I do not think the lack of auto-feed is a handicap. ArcEuroTrade do sell an auto-feed for the C0 but I have never felt the need to use it.

If you do choose to buy a C0 I would recommend you buy the tailstock adapter sold by Arc to solve any tailstock alignment issues you may encounter.

It is an excellent little lathe for hobbyist use. Because it is so small it is very rigid and I get a really good finish on the parts I machine with it. For the money, it is surprisingly accurate. However, if you intend to use a small lathe to earn a living you may like to consider something more "up-market" like a Cowells, Taig or Sherline.

Proxxon also make very small lathes but I have never seen a review from an owner…

[Christian SprogøParticipant @christiansprogo42613]

Thank you again, for all your time and greatly appreciated help.

Im not doing anything "for a living" on the lathe, just learning the basics on, so when the need arises, i can go to the bigger lathes. It just seem silly to me, to have access to a whole new ballgame of a tool, and not being able to use it. Furthermore, im really keen on learning to operate the machine – just for the fun in it. Like a lot of you guys i guess, i like to work both with my hands and my head ;-]

Heres a couple of lately examples, of situations, where i really wanted a lathe near by.

While fitting one table from a drill-press, onto another, i really could have used a bushing, in either alu or brass – 14mm outside diameter, with a 8 mm hole through it, and maybe 4 or 5 mm thickness. Would been nice to have made one right up, instead i used a lot of time, figuring alternative ways.

WWhile making a tonearm, i needed the end of a carbon rod (10mm) to be dead square in the end, Would be easy (i imagine) to set it up in a lathe, and use a tool to kiss the end of the tube.

While fixing a turntable for a friend, discovered his brass center bearing, was cracked inside, thus the Scratch– Scratch noise from the bearing. I had a new one, but with different axle diameter. Could maybe have been fixed, with either turning a new rod fitting my brass sleeve/bearing (my god i need to practice my English – i dont know a lot of the tech words in english – yet!) fitting my axle 8,35mm diameter, or a new brass sleeve/bearing fitting his axle 7,82mm.

So thats basacilly the work were talking about. Learning the basics, So my search continues, and im getting quite a lot of info on the net, and boy how is it conspicious (tough word to spell) that soo many lathes looks loke the same basic lathe, painted in different colours under differe brands – looks like the majority of the new lathes, i have access to are all going to be made in china.

Must look more into that c0 lathe. Positive thing if its ok precise, is that i can have it from a Danish dealer, cheap and all, so if anything is wrong, i can quickly return it. On the other hand, that cj18a lathe with metal gears, cost about the same as a c0. The specs says 450W motor, 20mm hole thru spindle, autofeed (meaning threading – wich im obsessed with learning). Arrrg ye trouble .

P.s: Now written on computer, without Danish spelling correction, so at least random danish words wont appear :-]

The search continues, and ill off course do a full review here, when i decide to get one (Wich would be within a week) and spin the tale, of a noobs quest into the world of lathes…..

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Christian,

Whichever small lathe you end-up buying; may I suggest you have a good look at the Sherline website: **LINK**

Videos

I have started you at the "videos" page, but there is much more information available on the site.

Best wishes

MichaelG.

[Henry ArtistParticipant @henryartist43508]

Something else to think about…

Most budget hobby lathes (including the C3/CJ18A, etc.) turn too fast for thread cutting even on their lowest speeds. To cut threads many owners find it easier to use taps and dies held in the tailstock and turn the chuck or workpiece by hand with the power off.

Of course there is always more than one way of doing things and half the fun of learning to use a new machine is finding which methods work best for you.

[Christian SprogøParticipant @christiansprogo42613]

Been around the Sherline , but alas could not find any distribution here in Denmark, but ill look into it again. The cj18a goes down to 50rpm, is that not low enough for threads godt? Have seen/done the threading with dies in the lathe, certanly doable – but i just have a Geelong, that thread cutting Will be in my future projects, and the Weiss + Colchester i have Access to, both can handle the job , so it would be a nice skill to possess. And thats why im reluctant to go for the c0 , simply because my desire to learn the thread cutting Techniques. Allso looked at the Proxxon Range ( i have several other proxxon products, that im Very happy with) but the price here is outrageous.

So ill keep diggin, and sudenly ill just go for something.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Henry Artist on 28/04/2017 08:10:59:

Something else to think about…

Most budget hobby lathes (including the C3/CJ18A, etc.) turn too fast for thread cutting even on their lowest speeds. To cut threads many owners find it easier to use taps and dies held in the tailstock and turn the chuck or workpiece by hand with the power off.

Of course there is always more than one way of doing things and half the fun of learning to use a new machine is finding which methods work best for you.

Henry is correct. When cutting threads on my old mini-lathe I rarely used the motor. Instead, a simple accessory to make is an expanding mandrel that fits temporarily in the spindle so that the lathe can be turned with a hand crank. It makes it much easier to cut threads than twisting the chuck. Don't forget to remove the handle before using the motor though!

Henry made another good point about the C0. I (and others) remarked that it was too small. What we mean is that it's too small for the kind of work we want to do! When choosing a lathe, what you are going to do with it matters. There are a few examples on the forum of disappointed chaps who've bought equipment without realising it had limitations that made it unsuitable for their purposes. A C0 is not suitable for making motorcycle parts, but I think you know that. What you're asking and thinking about buying a lathe is all sensible.

Dave

[Christian SprogøParticipant @christiansprogo42613]

I simply cant thank you All enough, youve helped a newbie quite a Lot, with All your answers, and most importanly made me ask myself, the right questions – Whats IT used for? So boiled down, my needs are: A machine that Will teach me the basics of a lathe, including thread cutting. Mainly used for brass, alu maybe mild steel. The odd turning down, say ?= 20mm piece of alu rod, make a nice square end of it, drill a Hole, and cutting off 5mm thick Pieces. Maybe a 10mm rod, turned down as precise as say 7.5mm.

The plot thikens, med think

P.s If any of you gentlemen ever comes to Denmark, i Owe you a beer

[Christian SprogøParticipant @christiansprogo42613]

Ahhh,finally hit that Buy Now button – rewiew and a plethora of questions Will be comming Up shortly.

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