Grooving Tool

[Rod AshtonParticipant @rodashton53132]

I am trying to purchase a lathe grooving tool + inserts. The regular suppliers R.. & Ch…. seem to have no idea of the shape/dimensions of their inserts. Since this is critical for CNC accuracy can I ask where do you get your mid price tooling from.

JB seem not to do one.

All seem to think I want a parting tool, not the same thing of course. If you can help I would be grateful.

[Rod AshtonParticipant @rodashton53132]

Where from??

[Rod AshtonParticipant @rodashton53132]

Apologies just found what I wanted at ARC with all the required info.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I did not know Ketan did grooving tools have you got a link? I'm not counting the ones that are parting tools but not used to cut all the way through. There are several grooving systems about, I use the "Mini-thin" one

 

J

Edited By JasonB on 07/05/2016 13:21:38

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

Cutwel stock both Korloy and Simtek grooving tool systems. However, APT Tools also do a generic own-brand version of the MGMN system which is a fair bit cheaper – I'm pretty sure it's compatible with the Korloy MGT system and others. However, Cutwel periodically offer a free tool with 10 inserts etc which makes the cost a bit more bearable.

I'm pretty certain my Korloy grooving / parting tool is the KGT system which isn't compatible with the MGT system despite the appearance. I think it's just a more recent version of the same concept. You can get a variety of inserts with different profiles and they are good for both parting and profiling ie you can cut any direction.

Here's a KGT video from Korloy to get you in the groove.

Murray

[Rod AshtonParticipant @rodashton53132]

Jason – Just pop "grooving tools" into the ARC search and you will see the selection.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Yes at time of writing I was thinking of tools with specific grooving inserts eg set widths and shape rather than the "narrow partingtool that cuts 3 ways" which is a grooving & turning tool

Edited By JasonB on 09/05/2016 08:31:55

[Nick_GParticipant @nick_g]

.

I am also considering a tool that takes the MGMN 200 inserts for grooving / parting. Has anybody used one.?

Nick

[Chris HembryParticipant @chrishembry84309]

Hi Nick,

Not tried the MGMN system, but do use the very similar Korloy KGT system. Having a need to part off 1" Hex 303 in large quantities, I could not find another system rigid enough. I use the 2mm width, speed 730 rpm, feed 25"/min and have no issues.

Regards, Chris

[Nick_GParticipant @nick_g]

Posted by Chris Hembry on 09/05/2016 09:24:56:

Hi Nick,

Not tried the MGMN system, but do use the very similar Korloy KGT system.

Regards, Chris

.

Thanks Chris,

Looks a versatile system and while not cheap is not too OTT either. **LINK**

Besides I have given up buying cheap tools. Perhaps I am overly heavy handed with them but it usually ends up with gritted teeth and swearing from me.

Nick

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

I am using the narrow top clamp type tool from ARC on my CNC lathe doing 'O' ring grooves for spool valves which are quite critical on width.

This tool can cut sideways if needed or plunge in repeatedly to get the required groove width.

TBH this is now my tool of choice for grooving or parting off if the material is less than 32mm for parting off. Tips last far longer than the clip in type and the spool valves which are 20mm, 25mm and 30mm in diameter can be parted off at 1200rpm, in fact all the operations are done at 1200 rpm.

[Nick_GParticipant @nick_g]

Posted by John Stevenson on 09/05/2016 09:52:51:

20mm, 25mm and 30mm in diameter can be parted off at 1200rpm, in fact all the operations are done at 1200 rpm.

.

Hi John,

I have a friend who like yourself is a pro.

I am amazed at the speed and feeds he parts off at. – It's like a hot knife through butter.!

But his machines are big rigid lathes or Ward capstans.

Nick

[Anonymous]

Posted by Chris Hembry on 09/05/2016 09:24:56:

I use the 2mm width, speed 730 rpm, feed 25"/min and have no issues.

Blimey, 34 thou per rev?

Andrew

[Chris HembryParticipant @chrishembry84309]

I'll check, been a while since I wrote the program and had no reason to look at it again

[Chris HembryParticipant @chrishembry84309]

25 is programmed which would have given 2.5 inch/min. However, that program is now fully converted to metric so is actually 25mm/min. My mistake. Previous software version only permitted feed rates in inch/min regardless of whether rest of program was in metric or imperial, hence the confusion.

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

Bottom of page 10 of the May Cutwel flyer has MGT tool and 30 inserts for £99 if you are wavering….

[JonParticipant @jon]

I use both daily for turning, parting and grooving currently fitted with neutral DGN2202J inserts from Iscar being my favourite in a DGTR one piece tool. Much like the Korloy above I would be tempted with. These work on anything you care to throw at them, whether titaniums, aluminiums, steels, plastics or brass. One tool can do multiple operations, these are worth it having tried just about everything. The only problem I get is using appropriate left or right hand tip and it leaving a burr when parting.

Certainly can plough straight in parting at alarming rates in nearly all metals inc titaniums, just clear the debris regularly on 6082. **LINK**

Iscar above substantially better for turning than the Teutec C type quite similar to MGMN mainly due to the radiused edges. **LINK**

Internal boring, grooving and undercutting look no further than Horne circular interpolation meant for milling, I cant praise enough for lathe work and I am hard to please. Word of warning the tips are dear, last a long time and would be revolved when worn. So 6 sided in to £30+ aint bad, around £20 for three sided all interchangeable whether bullnose, chamfer or straight cut my favourite tool I couldn't be without. **LINK**

[Anonymous]

Posted by Muzzer on 09/05/2016 20:09:13:

Bottom of page 10 of the May Cutwel flyer has MGT tool and 30 inserts for £99 if you are wavering….

Damn it; had to go and dig the flyer out of the recycling bin! Fortunately (?) it's not quite what I'm looking for. What I actually want is a copying insert, ie, rounded tip, that I can use with my hydraulic copying unit.

Andrew

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Nick_G on 09/05/2016 10:03:26:

Posted by John Stevenson on 09/05/2016 09:52:51:

20mm, 25mm and 30mm in diameter can be parted off at 1200rpm, in fact all the operations are done at 1200 rpm.

.

Hi John,

I have a friend who like yourself is a pro.

I am amazed at the speed and feeds he parts off at. – It's like a hot knife through butter.!

But his machines are big rigid lathes or Ward capstans.

Nick

See my comments elsewhere or in ME about using parting inserts on a humble mini-lathe. I think matching speed and feed (and making sure they aren't too low) is more important than rigidity. Worst thing is too slow = rubbing = horrible noise and as your instinct (and received wisdom for HSS) is to slow down it takes practice to gain confidence to just up the speed and plough the insert into the work..

[David ColwillParticipant @davidcolwill19261]

I have just checked and found that I use the MGT parting system. I have found it to be great. I part 25mm at 1289 RPM on a Smart and Brown 1024. I also have some of the inserts with a 3mm diameter tip. The insert life is fantastic.

Hope this helps.

David.

[Anonymous]

Posted by Chris Hembry on 09/05/2016 18:56:11:

25 is programmed which would have given 2.5 inch/min. However, that program is now fully converted to metric so is actually 25mm/min. My mistake. Previous software version only permitted feed rates in inch/min regardless of whether rest of program was in metric or imperial, hence the confusion.

Chris: Thanks for the elucidation; there's no accounting for the bizarre logic incorporated in software! I normally part off at 4 thou per rev.

Andrew

[Anonymous]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 10/05/2016 09:59:45

I think matching speed and feed (and making sure they aren't too low) is more important than rigidity. Worst thing is too slow = rubbing = horrible noise and as your instinct (and received wisdom for HSS) is to slow down it takes practice to gain confidence to just up the speed and plough the insert into the work.

Finally an outbreak of understanding about the cutting process! Chatter is an oscillatory effect that can often be cured by increasing feedrate, irrespective of tool material. On any lathe the tool is going to move as the cut starts. For a low feedrate if said feedrate decreases by a large percentage as the tool moves then it is quite likely that chatter will result. However, for a higher feedrate the tool is more likely to stay where it is once the cut has started, so no chatter. The important thing is that the cutting process is stable, not how much the tool moves or how rigid the setup is in absolute terms.

Andrew

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

Posted by Andrew Johnston on 10/05/2016 09:53:49:

Posted by Muzzer on 09/05/2016 20:09:13:

Bottom of page 10 of the May Cutwel flyer has MGT tool and 30 inserts for £99 if you are wavering….

Damn it; had to go and dig the flyer out of the recycling bin! Fortunately (?) it's not quite what I'm looking for. What I actually want is a copying insert, ie, rounded tip, that I can use with my hydraulic copying unit.

Andrew

Yes, sometimes they allow mix and match on inserts but for this offer it's just the straight parting / turning insert. I mean to get some copy (round) inserts for KGT holder some day for profiling / copying.

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