Faulty Warco 1630 Item 4085

[john fletcher 1Participant @johnfletcher1]

A young friend recently bought a Warco 1630 Item 4085 lathe, as shown on the machine front panel, he was told of a fault before purchasing and  this model is no longer available. Apparently there is upper and lower speed pull out knob, the upper pull out does work. I will eventually be looking into things myself, but in the mean time has a reader got the same machine and would communicate with me, to help the lad. Also does a reader know if there is a Grizzly (US) equivalent. John

[Grizzly bearParticipant @grizzlybear]

Hi John,

With any luck, more information will bring a better response to your query.

Busy people haven’t got the time or inclination to look up Item 4085 etc.

Good luck………

Bear

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Though Mr Google can’t find this lathe it may be well known by another name!  Badge engineering.   A picture would help.

Dave

[peak4Participant @peak4]

You’re looking for a lathe Warco listed about 20 years ago, and stopped selling in 2005 by the looks of it.
Internet archive doesn’t have a photo from their web site; I’ve tried all dates
It seems to be different to the 1640ZX by more than just bed length.

[DiogenesParticipant @diogenes]

..Redundant comment..

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

If you search Google, you will probably find pdfs of the operator manual, and the spares manual which would have been supplied with the machine when new.

The Spares manual will show the arrangement of the High / Low speed selector.

Either something has come loose, and is out of adjustment or has been broken.   The selector fork or the connection between the control and it, (hopefully just a loose grubscrew rather than a fractured) component,

If the latter, your chances of finding a replacement are almost Zero, so you may finish up having to make a replacement. If there is an obvious design vulnerability, this is your chance to improve on the original

Howard

[peak4Participant @peak4]

Sorry Howard, I’m not convinced it’s that easy, unless Warco are able to assist in some way.
No search engine I’ve tried comes up with either a manual, nor a photo of the lathe under either of the numbers, just the page screenshot I posted above.
Internet Archive of Warco’s site(s) seems to give the years of sale; about 2004-5.
A appreciate that Warco advertised in more than the Model Engineering press, and this is a larger lathe, likely 8″ centre height, but I didn’t spot an advert for it in ME, MEW or EIM for a 3 year period centred around then; maybe there was and ad in the motorcycle or classic car press.

If someone can come up with a photo, one might be able to compare with Grizzly manuals, though even that is more difficult than it used to be without a model number.

Is it a full gear head, or a changewheel machine?

Bill

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

If nothing can be found, is there anyone out there who has such a machine and is prepared to photocopy the relevant pages for the OP?

That would make life so much easier than having to strip the machine without any fore knowledge.

Howard,

[john fletcher 1Participant @johnfletcher1]

I have recently received the enclosed pictures., I hope they will be of help to identify the problem. Sorry for the delay and please note that Item 4085 is part of the lathe description NOT a component part. Many thanks to all respondents.  John

 

[southernchapParticipant @southernchap]

Ooh nice solid chunk of a bed there.

Just a heads up, today I called the Warco spares department.

When cleaning my new-to-me Warco 918 (manufactured in Taiwan in 1994), I was a little heavy handed on the aluminium headstock face-cover with Methyl Ethyl Ketone (my go to cleaning/degreasing fluid of choice where there’s no paint at risk) and some fine Scotch-Brite. As a result I managed to erase a fair stripe of the change gear setting text!

I phoned Warco and the friendly fellow on the other end said to me to take some photos and email the spares department.  If they didn’t have it in stock (and he doubted they would), he said he’d give their suppliers a shout and see if they could supply one.  He also offered to send me a PDF copy of the manual.  I didn’t need that as I have the original supplied manual (not a bad manual either; the Taiwanese manufacturers seem to have been a lot more concerned with good documentation than the Chinese are these days!) as well as the Grizzly manual for their G4000 which is the same machine mostly.

If they still had the manual for a machine from 1994 then I’d guess a manual for a lathe from around the mid 2000s should present no problems for them.

Also you might find further advice for fixing your problem on the hobby-machinist.com forum.  Lots of yanks but it’s very friendly (and some of them even use metric and are willing to acknowledge that Colchester made lathes as worthwhile as Southbend!) and has a good breadth of awareness of different makes/models of machine tools.

[john fletcher 1Participant @johnfletcher1]

Many thanks for the info southernchap above.  Adam the owner will be around before the week is out, I feel he / I  are get there. The rest of the machine works well as it is, but he would like the complete facilities to be available.  John

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

The motor pulley has three sheaves, so you would expect the smallest sheave to run the belt onto the largest sheave on the driven pulley, and the largest sheave on the motor pulley to run the belt onto the smallest sheave of the driven pulley.

Has the “pull out” knob got a keyway? If it has, maybe the driven pulley is expected to float, and to be aligned by the belt on the sheave of the motor pulley.

A copy of the relevant page from the operator manual would clarify matters.

Howard

 

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

If the pull out knob is expected to move a gear or gears within the Headstock, then something is broken,  or loose within the Headstock, and the only way to be sure, and to rectify this, is to open up and investigate.

Rectification will involve a certain amount of stripping, which might mean either using the machine as it is to make a replacement part, or stripping, measuring, reassembly and then making the replacement part.

Only opening up will answer those questions.

Without the full range of speeds, the machine will be rather limited, having only three (belt) speeds instead of the two speed High/Low range provided by the gears within the Headstock

Have a look and tell us what you find, (preferably with pictures / dimensions) and then you are likely to get advice and help on how to cure the fault

Howard

[Peter Cook 6Participant @petercook6]

Looking at the speed plate on the front panel, it looks as if the three sheaves on the pulley set give a set of input speeds ( the belt is currently on the middle set). The pull out knob seems to select the ratio in a a two speed gearbox that drives the spindle (currently pulled out to give the higher set of speeds(?).

It would be interesting to know what happens when the knob is pushed in. Is there no drive to the spindle, the speed doesn’t change, lots of nasty noises or will the knob not move?

 

[peak4Participant @peak4]

The more I looks at this lathe, the more it reminds me of the combination Lathe/Mill machines; Clarke amongst others still sell something similar.
As I recall, some were available as a lathe only; Compare with one of the combos, as regards over-height tailstock, and spacer on the top slide, bed shape, lever or knob in the middle of the headstock, etc.

I’m not sure what’s being referred to here as a pull out knob, but the three position rotary knob on the front of the headstock, might be related to doubling the feed speed, rather than the spindle speed.

Have a look at this Grizzly manual, and you get the general idea; Page 22

https://cdn0.grizzly.com/manuals/g4015z_m.pdf

I’m guessing that the push/pull lever, is that gizmo on the centre of the V belt pulley.
Could it be something as simple as needing to position the knob on the from to the headstock on the correct place, and rotating the chuck by hand, to get some drive dogs to align?
Unlike the manual above, this only seems to have 2 pulleys, which don’t themselves slide, as per fig 15

Bill

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

The Clarke CL500LM and CL430 have no gears in the headstock. Only speed change is by the belt.

The other machines imported by Warco and Chester might be different

It looks like there is no alternative, but to investigate inside the Headstock.  Only then will know what is causing the lack of the other speed setting.

the solution might something simple, or may involve stripping to fit replacement parts.

Before stripping to take the machine out of service, work out if the replacement parts could be made, using the lathe, (And possibly some handwork)

You might even have to strip out, measure, and then reassemble to make the parts

If you need help, whereabouts are you?

Howard

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

Looks too me like three  speeds via a belt and 3 sheave pullies + a high / low back gear for the 3 lower speeds.

Best result will be caused not turning the chuck by hand whilst moving the knob.

Worst result will be failure caused by engaging high / low with the motor running.

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