EV Charging Hacks …

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Paul Kemp on 04/08/2021 01:27:35:

Advance to the front line corporal Jones! Hold on Captain Mainwearing I need to charge the van first

I somehow doubt that future conflicts will rely on tanks and troop carriers anyway so we are we are not doomed.

Paul.

.

Reality Check: **LINK**

https://www.millbrook.co.uk/news/2021/hybrid-military-vehicle-programme-led-at-utac-s-millbrook-proving-ground-on-behalf-of-the-mod/

MichaelG.

[Ex contributorParticipant @mgnbuk]

“TD6 is a key part of the Army’s plan for electrification of the battlefield, which seeks to gain operational advantage through using novel solutions for power, performance and support while also reducing carbon emissions. The programme will provide evidence to support the benefits, both direct and indirect, that hybridisation of some or all of our vehicle fleet may bring to inform our roadmap towards a more capable and sustainable future.” Colonel Simon Ridgeway OBE – Assistant Head Plans, Ground Manoeuvre – Army HQ

Does reducing the military vehicle emissions on the way to blowing up the opposition's infrastucture count as being "environmentaly friendly" in the greater scheme of things ?

Nigel B.

[Kiwi BlokeParticipant @kiwibloke62605]

“TD6 is a key part of the Army’s plan for electrification of the battlefield, which seeks to gain operational advantage through using novel solutions for power, performance and support while also reducing carbon emissions. The programme will provide evidence to support the benefits, both direct and indirect, that hybridisation of some or all of our vehicle fleet may bring to inform our roadmap towards a more capable and sustainable future.” Colonel Simon Ridgeway OBE – Assistant Head Plans, Ground Manoeuvre – Army HQ.

Damn! My bullshit detector has just overloaded.

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

"…electrification of the battlefield….. also reducing carbon emissions."

Seen it all now.

Death and destruction all around, HE fumes wafting across the land, blazing vehicles and buildings…. but no soot from the tanks. (He said 'carbon', not 'carbon dioxide'.)

Look as if yon Colonel has been practicing how to impress business chaps. Usually, senior officers are exemplars of concise, plain speaking, not "managementese".

++++

One or two on this thread have pointed out that we are engineers and so should appreciate the technical problems and practical solutions, which only scientists and engineers can develop.

I agree entirely but I think it misses the point. The barrier between them and society at large is the policy-makers, of whom most give the impression of not knowing power from energy, or which way to turn a spanner.

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

Posted by Nigel Graham 2 on 04/08/2021 22:43:41:

Look as if yon Colonel has been practicing how to impress business chaps. Usually, senior officers are exemplars of concise, plain speaking, not "managementese".

++++

One or two on this thread have pointed out that we are engineers and so should appreciate the technical problems and practical solutions, which only scientists and engineers can develop.

Perhaps the colonel has lapsed into waffle because he(and other advisors) aren't entirely convinced about the need or value of the proposal.

[Kiwi BlokeParticipant @kiwibloke62605]

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear… **LINK**

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Two points on military use.

The first being you cannot practically make deisel on a conflict zone you can make electricity.

Secondly quiet approach would be advantageous in some circumstances.

regards Martin

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Paul Kemp on 04/08/2021 01:21:57:

Posted by Vic on 03/08/2021 20:03:41:…

…

apply some critical thinking to your references and use your empathy to understand the problems this will bring to many… Just understand what you are wishing for. To properly address emissions is going to take a whole lot more than fixing transport.

Paul.

My advice is to think big and understand the problem. Paul is concerned with the practical inconvenience caused by moving away from fossil fuels and he's right: it will hurt. Unfortunately carrying on as we are isn't an option. God isn't making any more fossil fuels and the sources are drying up What use is an IC car if you can't get petrol, or – more likely – it costs a fortune to fill it? Secondly, burning fossil fuels is changing the climate, not in a good way. Climate change is likely to trigger world scale changes that completely alter everything; floods and droughts reducing food supply and triggering large-scale population movements. Climate change has moved beyond warnings: plenty of evidence it's happening. Anyone thinking our grandchildren will live as we do is wrong.

As change is inevitable, what is humanity going to do about it? Do nothing is always an option, but I prefer to tackle problems head on. Going to electric cars is indeed a major task, but no bigger than moving from Canals to Railways, or Railways to Internal Combustion, or from Wright Brothers at Kittyhawk to a constant stream of A380s queueing to land at Heathrow.

You have to start somewhere! Assumptions that don't hold water:

• EV's have to replace all types of vehicle to be of any use
• EV's have to be bought, refuelled, parked and driven in exactly the same way as IC transport
• Switchover has to occur overnight
• The change cannot proceed unless everyone is ready, happy, and convinced. There will be winners and losers, but who cares today about redundant Ostlers
• It must be done on the cheap
• It can only be done using technology understood by persons aged 50 or over.

The debate is over, time to get on with it. For the majority driving commute distances, electric will be relatively painless. Pulling caravans around Europe is more doubtful!

I wonder how many of the objections to new technology are fear of change? I certainly don't like it, but I see no value in trying to stop it. Much of the material published in ME between 1955 and 1964 discussing the demise of steam rings the same bells. Chaps wheeled out all sorts of arguments in favour of steam that showed an emotional attachment to an old friend rather than any understanding of railway economics. It was the economics that mattered, not the value of a well-understood but out-dated technology.

Nothing wrong with criticism, but I would like naysayers to come up with alternatives rather than assuming all is well. It's not, and engineers can only fix it if society lets them. I want to be part of the solution, not part of the problem.

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 05/08/2021 09:57:22

[Kiwi BlokeParticipant @kiwibloke62605]

Well, fine, but let's get things prepared for EVs, instead of just rushing out to buy them, encouraged by government cash incentives.

You'd think it ought to be easy to sort out greener transport in a little country with a small population, like New Zealand. The government seems to think so too, so it's offering cash incentives (discounts) on new EV purchases, and is threatening to tax the sort of vehicles farmers typically use (diesel 'utes' ). NZ generates most of its electricity by 'green' methods. Sounds good so far? NZ used and imported more coal then ever last year, and the trend has been upwards for years. This is because the country's electrical energy consumption cannot be met by 'green' generation, so electricity generation has to be topped-up by coal-fired generators, which use particularly 'dirty' coal. This means that, until more 'green' electricity is available, any increase in electrical energy consumption is effectively coal-powered. So are Kiwi EVs 'green'?

I'd like to see bumper stickers on Kiwi EVs loudly proclaiming 'Proudly Powered by Coal'.

Oh, and please do look at the link I provided just above…

Edited By Kiwi Bloke on 05/08/2021 11:09:56

Edited By Kiwi Bloke on 05/08/2021 11:11:56

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Though I suppose a petrol engined car fire would go unreported

Also how much has the import of petrol been reduced as that would go some way to balancing out the burning of coal in the power stations?

I wonder how many here own or have driven an EV or Hybrid? My father recently got a Stonic which Kia term a "mild hybrid" and I've been driving it to run him to a few hospital appointments and I'm quite impressed. Takes a while to get used to the sensation of the engine shutting off after 5 second when you are just coasting along or the silence when it stops when you are stationary. You can't feel it start up again and I've easily been getting over 50mpg urban driving with out trying to be conservative, all that from a 1000cc 3-cylinder turbo petrol engine.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by JasonB on 05/08/2021 11:31:48:

Though I suppose a petrol engined car fire would go unreported

…

Like this example in Liverpool, BBC News

More than 1,000 vehicles that were destroyed in a huge car park fire are being removed ahead of its demolition.

Temperatures in the multi-storey car park on King's Dock in Liverpool reached 1,000C during the inferno on New Year's Eve 2017.

In a petrol fire, tanks explode and leak, spreading flame from car to car with spectacular results in a confined space. An EV battery meltdown is unlikely to spread fire between vehicles.

Dave

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 05/08/2021 11:49:31:

An EV battery meltdown is unlikely to spread fire between vehicles.

Dave

Did you read Kiwi's link?

"The blaze had started in one of the two electric vehicles in their garage and spread to the other."

 

Edited By JasonB on 05/08/2021 11:53:09

[VicParticipant @vic]

Posted by Paul Kemp on 04/08/2021 01:21:57:

Posted by Vic on 03/08/2021 20:03:41:

I can’t quite get the link between a government ban on the sales of New ICE Cars in 2030 and comments about military vehicles? I would have though the military would be keen to continue using Diesel, Petrol and Avgas?

This makes interesting reading. I knew 60% of motorists have their own drive. It’s a shame so many folks can’t understand the concept of destination charging.

No Driveway

Vic,

Are you sure there is no bias in your link? I mean it is not as if they have anything to gain being a commercial organisation – I didn't see any reference to charitable status or not for profit entity? It doesn't say 60% of people have drives either – it actually says they have access to off street parking. There is a world of difference! Yes there are many people that do have access to off street parking but consider estates where that parking is remote from your house. A man I know has a wife that is a community midwife and the NHS has decreed she must be issued with an EV. He has off street parking – in the car park attached to the estate (which has no chargers) and is 100m from his house. How does she charge her car? She has no office or base, all she does it make house calls. What is she supposed to do when arriving at the patients house – ask if they would mind dreadfully if she plugs her car into one of their 3 pin sockets while she does her business?

The gent writing the article stated he parks his car at the railway station overnight to charge and enjoys the walk home and back in the morning. All fine and dandy when the sun shines but in the middle of winter? All I can say is he is very lucky, it costs around £8 to park for 12 hrs at our local station and it only has around 100 spaces……

Never mind my bags of empathy, apply some critical thinking to your references and use your empathy to understand the problems this will bring to many. TfL provides some very reasonably priced public transport in the city but do you think the passengers only pay? Just look at the millions that went into the Mayors cap last year to prop it up! Exactly the reason he wants to implement the charge for anyone without a resident postcode within the M25 to pay around £5 a day to drive inside it – the revenue to prop up TfL. That scheme has gone quiet at the moment but I am sure he will resurrect it as soon as he can. Like others on here I would like to think my children and grandchildren will have the freedom of movement I have enjoyed but somehow I doubt it. It's not as easy as the flag waving representatives of us all will have you believe. Green is not just a technology choice it's will be a complete lifestyle and cultural change and despite all the claims of cheap or free energy – nothing comes for free and it certainly won't be cheap. Just understand what you are wishing for. To properly address emissions is going to take a whole lot more than fixing transport.

Paul.

Did you even read the first headline or not understand the concept of Destination Charging?
If we didn’t strive to overcome the challenges that come with new technology we’d all still be driving model T Fords.

[Kiwi BlokeParticipant @kiwibloke62605]

The point wasn't so much about the intrinsic fire risk of EVs, but the suggestions about how and when they should be charged, and whether this should be unsupervised, etc. Another point, not addressed in the link, is all the difficulties first responders face when attending an EV 'incident', including a fire.

[VicParticipant @vic]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 05/08/2021 09:54:57:

Nothing wrong with criticism, but I would like naysayers to come up with alternatives rather than assuming all is well. It's not, and engineers can only fix it if society lets them. I want to be part of the solution, not part of the problem.

Dave

I completely agree, we actually need constructive criticism. Not some of the silly made up objections we so often hear. I hasten to add that I’m not an EV owner although I hope to be able to get one when the price comes down to a more affordable level.

[Paul KempParticipant @paulkemp46892]

Vic,

Yes I read the headline, yes I understand the concept of destination charging and have given an example of such in another thread that would be available to me but for a variety of reasons is not practical. (This is an abbreviated version of a more detailed reply but this dozy site logged me out and I lost it and I can't be bothered to write it all again!).

I have spent the last two years working with multinationals to develop a green solution. Not an academic exercise but a real world solution to be commercially implemented. Through that I am well aware of the limitations and costs. Comparison made between a diesel, electric, hybrid or hydrogen solution covering duty cycle / asset availability, capital and running costs. Cheapest solution 30% more than simple diesel and running costs not significantly lower if projections are correct – although we hope they are worst case!

You say you would like to have an EV when the costs come down – when do you think that will be? There are a number of reasons why overall costs are unlikely to change greatly so if it suits your needs its a probably as good a time as any to do it. Not casting any asspertions on your financial position but if you are waiting for prices to drop either you cannot afford it or you can't justify to yourself that expenditure – why else would you wait? Being honest although approaching retirement but still having a reasonably well paid job I can't afford the kind of vehicle I would need to keep doing what I enjoy doing – towing a minimum 2 tonnes with a range of around 200m.

I am aligned with Dave (SOD) that we need to clean up our act and I also think we are close on the attitude, lifestyle, cultural change required to embrace the alternatives. However he seems to think I am focussed on cheap, I am not, I am focussed on affordable. If we peasants want to move around freely as we have for the last 60 years or be that on public or by personal transport then we need to be able to afford it. That is one of the blocks, that is not my fantasy that is fact and that is a current block identified by Vic.

Paul.

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