EMG-12 Endmill Re-sharpening module

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

But it only goes upto 12mm Neil unless Bogs is waring a lot off the sides

[VicParticipant @vic]

Id like to hire one of these machines for an hour. Someone gave me a small box of mills and quite a few have been badly "sharpened" on the end…

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I assumed he meant cutters that were 6 flute, OR big OR carbide, not all three at the same time!

Neil

[Jesse Hancock 1Participant @jessehancock1]

I'm sure there is no one on here who is doubting Neils enthusiasm for the machine or it's capabilities. I'm also fairly sure that a lot of us on here are of fairly meagre disposable income and it's this which is the stumbling block for most. Not ££££'s but ££'s and indeed the question do I need a dedicated sharpener for milling tools or shall I put the car on the road again this year?

Being realistic with none existent cash is not being negative in my book.

Meanwhile… Jeeves get the Bugatti out old bean I need a loaf of bread and some fag papers.

Being sarcastic however is a trait I inherited from my father so please forgive me if you can.

[Gray62Participant @gray62]

I really don't see the value in wasting valuable magazine space reviewing such as this. It is most likely out of the price range of most model engineers and has very limited capabilities. In my view it's right up there with those useless deckel clones that many traders try to fob us off with as T&C grinders. Money better spent on a Worden, Quorn Kennet, or similar. Alright you have to build them yourself – but as I said before(slightly tongue in cheek) there is a lot to be gained by this, the pleasure of achieving the final result, many good techniques learnt and far more versatile whichever one you choose.

I appreciate that none of these are as simple to set up but once the method is learnt it is not difficult to repeat, I use my Worden for the end of all my end mills, drills and lathe tools, My Quorn even though not fully completed does a grand job on honing the flutes on milling cutters.

[CotswoldsPhilParticipant @cotswoldsphil]

I like many on here I'm time rich, but cash poor…

I'm sure the EMG-12 is a capable machine but it's well out of reach of the average ME's pocket.

I've just completed a version of Harold Hall's grinding jig/table and have made a half decent job of resharpening (as a challenging test piece) a well broken 1/4 inch 4 flute end-mill in less than 5 minutes . I expect that I could do the same with a 3 or 6 tooth cutter in a hex adapter, even carbide, with an appropriate diamond wheel and any size you like.

Plus, Harold's design can be adapted for a variety of tasks especially useful in a small workshop.

Well pleased; thank you Harold.

Phil

Edited By CotswoldsPhil on 11/04/2015 19:34:53

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

> I'm sure the EMG-12 is a capable machine but it's well out of reach of the average ME's pocket.

> It is most likely out of the price range of most model engineers

It's a fraction of the price of a new Myford or a CNC mill – should I exclude such machines from teh pages of MEW?

Neil

[Another JohnSParticipant @anotherjohns]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 11/04/2015 21:19:48:

It's a fraction of the price of a new Myford or a CNC mill – should I exclude such machines from teh pages of MEW?

You should put it in.

7-1/4" gauge locomotives may be out of the range of some "locomotive types" because of costs of materiel and possible re-arrangement of home premises and cars and towing trailers and… (don't laugh – I figure going to the usual 7-1/4" stuff "over here" would require a few years more of work to cover the costs… a 7-1/4 "Tich" style or equivalent would be ok, but not the usual large stuff)

That doesn't mean that Diane should not publish anything larger than 3-1/2" gauge.

[Michael CheckleyParticipant @michaelcheckley34085]

I found this fella in a used tool shop when I was on a break in the peak district. He wanted £700 for it claiming they cost well over £2k new. I was tempted but left it in the shop knowing they go for much less on ebay. Makes the Arc Euro one a bargain though….IF it does the same job….

[Gray62Participant @gray62]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 11/04/2015 21:19:48:

> I'm sure the EMG-12 is a capable machine but it's well out of reach of the average ME's pocket.

> It is most likely out of the price range of most model engineers

It's a fraction of the price of a new Myford or a CNC mill – should I exclude such machines from teh pages of MEW?

Neil

Damn right you should, who in their right mind would pay 9k for a new 'Myford' big bore ( and it's in inverted commas for a reason – go figure as they say), overpriced and over rated. As for a CNC mill, at least you are getting something with wide ranging capabilities. Neither a lathe nor mill be it manual or CNC is a realistic comparison.

Iif that's the way things are going to go, then you just lost another subscriber.

As for the parallel drawn with a 7 1/4 gauge loco or for that matter a large scale TE, they are costs that can (and usually are) spread over many years, spending the best part of £1k on a machine to do one task is incomprehensible.

It's not often I get wound up by things these days, life is to short -but this, it's just too ridiculous – or is it ??

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Posted by CoalBurner on 11/04/2015 23:17:18:

It's not often I get wound up by things these days, life is to short -but this, it's just too ridiculous – or is it ??

.

 

It's just another product. whether it suits you or not is up to you. Personally I see adverts for mobile phones costing more than I care to pay, I wouldn't buy a new Myford as to me I can buy bigger, better at less cost but seeing the advert doesn't wind me up.

Jaguar, BMW and Mercedes all seem to make a good living but I wouldn't buy one.

 

By your own admission you have a Quorn and a Worden so why would you even want another T&C grinder? This machine isn't aimed at you, as you say life's too short, move on, nothing to see here.

Edited By John Stevenson on 11/04/2015 23:30:08

[Neil LickfoldParticipant @neillickfold44316]

Yes but when you sharpen the end it's still 15.7 so don't understand what you are trying to say ?

 

Unless you are running down the edges of plates all day on the side of a cutter the flutes don't wear, only the bit that's doing the cutting which in this game is hardly more than 3mm.

Where ever possible, we use the max flute length for cutting. As a general rule use only 10% of the cutter diameter as a cut width. If you have less power then the side cut amount will be less. This is side cutting, not trying to make the initial slot. The cutters get reground on bottom face and side faces if they are worn/not sharp. Where possible I like to put a small radius on the corner of the cutters, they chip less and therefore last longer.

It is also called adaptive machining these days in industry.

Neil

Edited By Neil Lickfold on 12/04/2015 01:50:42

[CotswoldsPhilParticipant @cotswoldsphil]

> I'm sure the EMG-12 is a capable machine but it's well out of reach of the average ME's pocket.

I seem to have thrown a spanner in the works, perhaps I should have said my pocket.

I certainly would not pay £9k for a new, or even £2k for a used basic Myford S7, even if I could afford it. Current asking prices are silly. I suspect many Myfords and accessories are being bought up and then stored in the hope of increasing in value – what a waste.

If I was starting again I would probably go for a used Boxford. It's the size/weight issue which seems to be overlooked when passions run high about Myfords.

Back on topic >>>>> Should such adverts for expensive kit be excluded? I don't think so. The illustration of clever/novel engineering can sometimes be incorporated into your own projects.

Phil

 

Edited By CotswoldsPhil on 12/04/2015 07:59:22

[Gray62Participant @gray62]

Posted by John Stevenson on 11/04/2015 23:28:16:

Posted by CoalBurner on 11/04/2015 23:17:18:

By your own admission you have a Quorn and a Worden so why would you even want another T&C grinder? This machine isn't aimed at you, as you say life's too short, move on, nothing to see here.

Edited By John Stevenson on 11/04/2015 23:30:08

The advert is not what what I was raising objection to, if you read my post I was referring to the planned review in the magazine. I agree there are a lot of products out there that are out of reach of the average ME.

Yes I have a Quorn and a Worden, but why do you assume this product is not aimed at me? that is a very presumtious statement. If this device was the answer to all my grinding woes then it may just persuade me to abandon the other devices in its favour.

'Move on nothing to see hear'!! – Don't tell me to move on, that is an offensive attitude and one I do not expect from a moderator.

[Douglas JohnstonParticipant @douglasjohnston98463]

I am all in favour of a review of this machine, although I have no intention of buying one. I like to see new ideas and may well pick up some technical details from how the grinder works. If this grinder uses some novel ideas, some bright spark will make their own copy at much less cost and then Neil can print the plans in MEW for us all to benefit from (provided no patents are infringed )

Doug

[CirclipParticipant @circlip]

Posted by Bogstandard2 on 11/04/2015 11:01:23:

Posted by Circlip on 11/04/2015 10:21:31:

Lot of cash just to sharpen the ENDS of cutters. I think HH's rendition is far more adaptable.

Regards Ian.

I just don't know anyone in their right mind who would want to mess about with weird sized cutters in this day and age.

Unless of course you had only a couple of cutters in your complete arsenal. and were so tight not to purchase a few new ones. I would prefer not to spend all the time I had left grinding up the flutes on milling cutters and spending maybe hours working out the co-ordinates to use such resharpened cutters. A real PITA.

John

Problem is John that it's difficult to see how one could mount 1/4, 1/2 or 3/4" (6,12, 20mm) square lumps of HSS steel into it and grind various other angles on. Don't forget, I still use Carbon steel tooling as I don't find the necessity to rive lumps off quickly. After using a Christensen for sharpening 1/16" dia. and downwards drills in my apprentice days it made hand grinding futile, but it was a production machine shop so tooling costs didn't matter. They did however baulk at the thought when shown the "New" FC3 Chuck away milling cutters advocated for the equally "New" CNC milling machines.

Regards Ian.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

I think ME/MEW should make a point of regularly reviewing small industrial equipment outside the range of MEs because eventually it will be on the second hand market and then there will be somthing to refer back to. Bet no ME bought a brand new Clarkson back in the sixties yet now dozens reading this have one.

I also don't know how many clubs would buy this kind of thing as a club asset, but I wonder, if suitably advertised, whether it would be profitable for SMEE to run one at Sandown and offer 'while you wait' sharpening. I think it would suit a lot of people to be able once a year to get this service along with their entertainment.

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Wow, there are indeed some interesting comments on here.

Over the past seven to ten years, we have seen plenty of big engineering business close. During the same period, we have seen a slow and steady growth in new small engineering workshops being established by individuals who have been made redundant by big business. Many of these individuals also happen to have an interest in model engineering, or they have friends involved in ME.

Resulting from this, we have seen a growth in customers from the small business arena. These small businesses still face the challenges of delivering 'just in time' results. Yes, people can buy throw away cutters, but there are limited options if you don't have a spare replacement cutter to finish a job which needs to be delivered without delay. Carbide cutters are expensive. Quality cutters are expensive. Sure engineers don't think like accountants, but when it comes to putting food on the table, working on small margins, a small business has to think about the money invested and the return. The engineer in a small business environment doesn't have the privileges of big business. That being said, now a days we even get procurement calls from big business looking to cut costs!

We at ARC are grateful to the ME community for this growth, in many ways. The decision to introduce this product has been taken after a lot of thought. This product is really targeted towards people who have limited time, experience or knowledge to re-grinding end mills, be they model engineers or businesses. How well it does, only time will tell.

As Neil Armstrong sorry Wyatt said, we will just have to wait for the full review in MEW.

Ketan at ARC

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Is the slightly used test machine one of the prizes in the "workshop photo" competition, if so I can see a few more people dusting off their box brownies

[Nick_GParticipant @nick_g]

Posted by CoalBurner on 12/04/2015 08:29:05:

'Move on nothing to see hear'!! – Don't tell me to move on, that is an offensive attitude and one I do not expect from a moderator.

.

"move on nothing to see here". Is / has become an expression in mainstream society banter. (do you ever go out.?)

It use is widely interpreted as a lighthearted inoffensive 'tongue in cheek' type remark that would usually leave the recipient of it with a rye smile.

IMHO you are taking the choice to look for a reason to be offended when none was (again IMHO) intended.

Chill, relax, have a beer, kick the cat, watch a porn movie, make some pasta, eat marmite on toast. Anything.! But certainly no need to be offended.

Have a good week, Nick

[John McNamaraParticipant @johnmcnamara74883]

Hi All

Looks like it uses ER collets to hold the endmill….

I found a similar one with instructions here **LINK**

Regards
John

[David ColwillParticipant @davidcolwill19261]

A company that I work for has the drill grinder shown in John McNamara's link. I think all in all with the collets etc it cost £1200. As has been pointed out you can buy an awful lot of twist drills for that. They do often have to work late to finish jobs and they lack any other viable means of sharpening a drill, so the 20 minutes or so every now and the of someone running around trying to find a sharp drill do add up. Would I pay for one, no way but for them it is a great solution and they are happy with it.

As for the endmill grinder, well I certainly don't need it and can't afford it at the moment but i'm glad to see it reveiwed. If I had the money I would buy one as an ornament as I find it pleasing to look at.

David

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Can we keep the discussion about the sharpener and not let it descend into personal comments.

J

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

John Mc, thanks for the link. I see they list the smaller ones as going upto 13mm so it would be interesting to see if a 1/2" ER collet would fit so that those with imperial cutters could go upto that size rather than 3/8" max

[Oompa LumpaParticipant @oompalumpa34302]

Would love to own one of these, but just right now I cannot justify it.

It has however spurred me on and I have ordered the bearings for my spindle for my tool and cutter grinder.

graham.

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