Electric Smart Meters

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

Does anyone use a MIG welder and have a Smart Meter. We have a 3 phase supply – forced to have it because we have a 950watt underfloor heater in the kitchen. (EDF France). I have no need for 3 phase, but that's what was installed. The supply is 3 phase plus neutral and 12Kw 60 amp (20 amp per phase).

Apparently the Smart Meter trips at exactly 20 amp on any of the phases. I am concerned that my MIG welder (Smartmig 142) rated at Imax 13.5amp will still work once I go Smartmeter ie: can the welder have very short bursts of more than its rated Imax of 13.5.

To change from 3 phase to single phase 12Kw at this point is very expensive and in the region of £/€ 750

What is the experience / thinking on this one.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Planning to move soon, I want to leave the decision to the next householder.

But the pestering by my supplier feels like they are verging on harassment and the approaches used are so misleading .

Neil

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

We have had smart meters for electricity and gas for a couple of years now. I was not impressed by the kid who fitted them, just the minimum of training to be certified, but not any sort of proper fitter. The silly gadget they give you to monitor the consumption is sitting unused in a drawer. The only possible advantage could be that the meters we had were very old and that we don't have the meter reader needing to be let into the garage periodically.

[David George 1Participant @davidgeorge1]

The last two places I worked at had 3 phase smart meters for the electricity. They had an antena which was outside the factory so the signal wasn't blocked. The gas meters were old style but little larger than a household meter with 2 inch connectors.

David

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

I think my smart meter may have developed a sense of humour or it’s not very smart.

Mike

[robjon44Participant @robjon44]

Hi all, in my last job before retirement there was a very large & old fangled electricity meter bolted to the wall behind my machine, on the adjacent exterior wall was a small bracket with an aerial just a few inches high, I enquired what it was for & was told it was so that the meter could be read from outside the building, a few days later a man turned up wearing the electricity company's uniform & proceeded to read the meter, upon asked why he was not using the remote facility he said "I would if the expletive thing worked!" Boom Boom as Basil Brush would have said.

BobH

[Anthony KendallParticipant @anthonykendall53479]

I do not have a smartmeter – I think I change suppliers too often to get one. I have always said yes when asked – thought it would save a pimply-faced youth from reading my meter. I do have night tariff which is switched by the Droitwich LF transmitter and works.
The facts suggested here seem to be….

Smartmeters are unique to each supplier
Currently, their only function is to give continuous usage data
People are worried they might be used for something sinister like switching their supply off
Mostly they do not work
They use the mobile phone network to transfer data

Mmm! Seems a bit of a mess?

Tongue in cheek comment – since I do not have one through no fault of my own and we are all paying, can I claim compensation? At the very least you folks should be grateful for my gift to you.

[RMAParticipant @rma]

I just had an email, in a rather authoritarian tone, from my supplier requesting an appointment be made to fit smart meters. I promptly replied with my refusal and reasons for that decision, and they instantly came back and said that's fine. The simple answer is, you don't have to have them, not in the UK anyway!

The decision to go down this route, with unattainable deadlines was made by 'not so smart' politicians. If anyone can give me a sound reason for the consumer having one, I'd be pleased to hear it.

They were fitted to every household a couple of years back in Spain (in an amazing short time span), by order of the government and I have no idea what benefit I get from it. It has no effect on the extortionate standing charge and tax element to the bill! It only benefits the company supplying the electricity by reading meters remotely.

Every property is already fitted with a smart meter alternative, it's called a switch!

[SandgrounderParticipant @sandgrounder]

Posted by old mart on 09/11/2020 18:39:16:

We have had smart meters for electricity and gas for a couple of years now. I was not impressed by the kid who fitted them, just the minimum of training to be certified, but not any sort of proper fitter. The silly gadget they give you to monitor the consumption is sitting unused in a drawer. The only possible advantage could be that the meters we had were very old and that we don't have the meter reader needing to be let into the garage periodically.

We had them fitted last week, the chap that did them seemed to do a good job, he replaced all the wiring from the mains in to my consumer unit including a new mains isolator and moved the gas meter further away from the electric meter etc, it took him over 5 hours and he was most apologetic for the time taken and thanked us for patience, like yourself I also don't use the silly monitor gadget, the plus side for me is I don't have to clear out all the stuff under the stairs every month and crawl in with a torch to read the meters.

[Stuart Munro 1Participant @stuartmunro1]

I must be getting old! Time was when I liked to play with each new gadget that came out; CD players, DVD recorders, Digital cameras….

Now I've gone back to vinyl records and flatly refuse to contemplate a smart meter. I see them as being of great advantage to the supplier in making it easy for THEM to monitor usage and charge, pretty irrelevant to the consumer.

Now, where did I leave the photo chemicals?

Stuart

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by RMA on 01/04/2021 10:07:33:

…

The decision to go down this route, with unattainable deadlines was made by 'not so smart' politicians. If anyone can give me a sound reason for the consumer having one, I'd be pleased to hear it.

…

I'd agree with politicians being 'not so smart', and not realising suppliers would roll-out incompatible smart meters is an example! Never good at detail, the politicians assumed meters were meters, and that one would be good for all. It was of course a glorious opportunity for Utility Companies to extract more money from governments!

We happen to have lived in a world where energy was available on demand, and customers could consume it as he liked. This happy state of affairs is coming to an end. Oil, gas and coal are within 60 years of failing and the cost of energy from those sources is going to rise sharply over the next 15 years or so. Fossil fuels are being replaced by Green Energy, which are cheap and sustainable, but not necessarily available on demand. This means the cost of energy will vary with demand, and if demand exceeds supply, the whole system might fail.

At the moment, individuals with cash are free to consume energy whenever they want, but this can't be supported in future. Smart Meters are one way of damping out supply and demand problems. They make it possible for:

• Consumers to be charged at the going rate minute by minute. Thus, Mrs NDIY can cook whenever she wants, but the meter will tell her (or Mr NDIY), that the power is being charged at peak rate. Conversely, at other times power will be dirt cheap, and the meter will show that. It's only partly about saving by identify greedy devices, smart meters encourage people to use power when it's plentiful, and discourage them when it's short. We might choose to eat when power is cheap, not at fixed times.
• Power can be switched on or off house by house, rather than area by area. Also possible in future for devices within a home to be prioritised so that heating and cooking work, but not inessentials like vacuum cleaners and hobby workshops. Grid overloads are managed crudely at the moment, as demonstrated recently in Texas, but Smart Meters add finesse. An area could be disconnected apart from hospitals and old-age pensioners, or made even more fine-grained.
• Selfish behaviour makes shortages much more painful. For example, the Texas crisis was made much worse by people turning everything on when power was available to grab what they could before it failed again, which it did because the community was drawing more power than normal. Smart meters have the potential to limit wild swings in demand during shortages. 'Disconnect all homes consuming more than 20A'

Always tension between personal freedom and the needs of the community, but in this case it appears Smart Meters are part of the answer to a new problem. When, where, and how electricity is produced is changing fundamentally, and we have to adapt. I like the idea that my car could be set to recharge slowly only when power is cheap, but could choose to charge it fast at any time by paying more money, but I would have to know how much it cost before pressing the override button. Smart meters can do that. In practice, I think millions of people managing their consumption according to cost will match supply and demand effectively, so that those who need power during shortages still get it without smart meters actually having to disconnect anybody. Time will tell.

Dave

[J HancockParticipant @jhancock95746]

Hats off to National Grid algorithms that have been so lucky to win ,every year , so far.

Gets a bit more tricky though in the future, with old 'nukes' falling off -line and new ones, way behind

completion dates and 'wind' needing at least four times existing installations to provide 100%.

Last Sunday wasn't bad, 37% wind with 30GW load.

No gas 2030 getting closer every day.

[Martin ConnellyParticipant @martinconnelly55370]

The big lie regarding end users saving money is exposed here. Suppliers-charged-14p-day-rent-smart-meters.

Martin C

[Stuart Munro 1Participant @stuartmunro1]

Dave (Moderator). I fully agree with the need to reduce wasteful power use. I live in Brasil (note they spell it with a 's&#39 in the early 2000's. Their main source of power is Hydro Electric and successive drought years had significantly reduced capacity. All households were required to reduce consumption by 20% compared to the same period the previous year. Penal rates would be charged for any excess and disconnection threatened.

We achieved it. People found that that a freezer was not really needed and Christmas lights were replaced with glittery tinsel. Consumer goods were turned off when not required and street lights were switched off in the early hours.

The point was, the stick created a social change that stays with me today. I'm not sure smart meters in their current guise is sufficient of a stick but to have a real impact we need to change attitudes. Wasting power should be as much a 'no go' as drink driving. some modern innovations need careful rethinking:

Smart meters could be part of the answer, but are not yet imo.

Stuart

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

All households were required to reduce consumption by 20% compared to the same period the previous year. Penal rates would be charged for any excess and disconnection threatened.

H*lls Bells! That was crazy – no doubt some households would find it quite easy (the wasteful ones). But penalising those that were already frugal with electricity usage was probably very unfair.

If we were faced with the same problem, most of the savings in our household would be required from only one of the two occupants!

[Oven ManParticipant @ovenman]

Posted by Anthony Kendall on 01/04/2021 09:58:40:

Tongue in cheek comment – since I do not have one through no fault of my own and we are all paying, can I claim compensation? At the very least you folks should be grateful for my gift to you.

If you have any type of gas or electricity meter(not just a smart meter) then you have to pay for it. Looks like smart meters cost about five times that of an ordinary meter and there is also a charge for the Data Communications Company (DCC) to read the meter remotely and pass the data to the electricity supplier. So yes, it looks like you might be subsidising us a bit thank you.

One benefit of having Solar panels and a smart meter is the delight in seeing the little pylon symbol on the in home display and knowing that the electricty you are using is free and some is going back ito the grid. Nice little earner for the elecricity company pay me about 4p per unit and sell it to others for about 14p per unit. Last month 64% of what we generated went back to the grid.

Peter

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

My smart meter display has conked, it shows stupid price readings and does not update.

Talked to the electric chat line because I am deaf I cannot phone. and got nowhere.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Posted by Clive Hartland on 01/04/2021 22:27:29:

My smart meter display has conked, it shows stupid price readings and does not update.

Talked to the electric chat line because I am deaf I cannot phone. and got nowhere.

They are not interested in your display – only to achieve their target of installations and getting to the point of being able to charge the customer on TOU tariffs. I suspect you have two Hopes of any action. No hope and Bob Hope – and he died years ago.

[Rod AshtonParticipant @rodashton53132]

The government should take back the whole industry. At least we would all be ripped off equally. The existing profits would surely make it a cost effective exercise.

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

Clive,

I'm with British Gas, my display crashed so rang them up, I was advised to turn it off for 24hrs, after 24 hrs we turned it back on and it was working correctly and that was before Christmas and has behaved since, it made me wonder if the meters were getting an upgrade.

Martin P

[Stuart Munro 1Participant @stuartmunro1]

Hi 'not done it yet'.

Yes 20% reduction was crazy and most unequitable. We were lucky in that we had just moved there a couple of months before the restrictions started and the previous occupants of the house we rented had granted us a massive usage to make our cuts from!

Being Sao Paulo (then the murder capital of the world) saw some innovative engineering solutions. 'Cats Whiskers' proffered, these were illegal taps into overhead power cables which ,should some earnest official try to disconnect, risked that official getting shot. So the whiskers grew.

But most people managed and power consumption did fall dramatically.

Stuart

[derek hall 1Participant @derekhall1]

Easiest and quickest way for the UK to save energy is to turn off alternate floors of office lights.

London city for example with its towering office blocks lit up like a xmas tree for most of the night probably most of them empty as the occupants have either gone home after their days work or are now working from home….

Those that work nights simply "hot desk" to a floor that is lit…..

Regards

Derek

[JAParticipant @ja]

Posted by Mike Poole on 01/04/2021 08:24:52:

I think my smart meter may have developed a sense of humour or it’s not very smart.

Mike

Yesterday was 1 April!

JA

[Anthony KendallParticipant @anthonykendall53479]

Posted by Rod Ashton on 02/04/2021 07:24:28:

The government should take back the whole industry. At least we would all be ripped off equally. The existing profits would surely make it a cost effective exercise.

Mmm! I've got a feeling we've been there with British Road Services, British Railways and the Coal Board to name but three.
There's only one flaw in the argument – there aint no profits when you get there.

Any government has to implement anything via civil service – a bunch of book-passing desk jockeys. No hope there methinks. The less the government is involved in anything, the better off we will be.

[john fletcher 1Participant @johnfletcher1]

If the government were really interested in saving energy they would alter the clock twice as we did in WW11. The Europeans do it without any problems. John

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