Dumb question from a none driver

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Posted by mark smith 20 on 31/08/2019 00:25:12:

Hi,

I just bought a used car for my son. Paid for locally with cash.Being a none driver all my life i know virtually nothing about cars. What i want to know is that the car needs to have me as the registered owner (for reasons i dont want to get into) but my son will be the registered keeper of the vehicle,responsible for driving it insurance etc..

Ive looked online but it keeps going on about registered keepers mainly.

We were given the logbook V5C, etc..

What do i do to register as the owner???

Thanks Mark

Edited By mark smith 20 on 31/08/2019 00:25:39

Edited By mark smith 20 on 31/08/2019 00:26:33

Edited By mark smith 20 on 31/08/2019 00:27:37

Hi Mark, going back to your original question, unless you are a trader you should not have been given the V5C document. You or your son's name and address should have been filled into section 6 and should have signed and dated section 8. You should have been given section 10, which is V5C/2 with whoever's name and address was written into section 6 and signed dated in section 8 and the seller should have sent the completed V5C document back to the DVLA. If you were given just the V5C/2 section 10 with your name and address on, then you will receive a new V5C document with your name and address on it and if you do not want to be the registered keeper, you will have to fill in section 6 with your son's name and address on and both of you will have to sign and date section 8 and then you will have to send the V5C document back to the DVLA who will then send a new V5C document to your son.

Hope this helps your question.

Regards Nick.

P.S. just read your latest post and as I've said above, you should not have been given the V5C document, only section 10 V5C/2.

P.P.S. is the document seller gave you red or blue on the front or is it a green slip?

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 31/08/2019 10:50:59

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

Talk to CAB. Your situation will not be unique.

A receipt from the sellar isn't going to be much good, after all anyone can draw up a piece of paper stating that I, Joe Bloggs, T/A Dodgy Cars Ltd, have this day sold a van bearing registration plate ABC123 to Mark Smith 20.

The V5C is of no use in this respect – it is purely a DVLA document concerned with the Registered Keeper and contains no information on purchase or other prices.

Peter G. Shaw

[mark smith 20Participant @marksmith20]

Posted by Nicholas Farr on 31/08/2019 10:40:02:

Posted by mark smith 20 on 31/08/2019 00:25:12:

Hi,

I just bought a used car for my son. Paid for locally with cash.Being a none driver all my life i know virtually nothing about cars. What i want to know is that the car needs to have me as the registered owner (for reasons i dont want to get into) but my son will be the registered keeper of the vehicle,responsible for driving it insurance etc..

Ive looked online but it keeps going on about registered keepers mainly.

We were given the logbook V5C, etc..

What do i do to register as the owner???

Thanks Mark

Edited By mark smith 20 on 31/08/2019 00:25:39

Edited By mark smith 20 on 31/08/2019 00:26:33

Edited By mark smith 20 on 31/08/2019 00:27:37

Hi Mark, going back to your original question, unless you are a trader you should not have been given the V5C document. You or your son's name and address should have been filled into section 6 and should have signed and dated section 8. You should have been given section 10, which is V5C/2 with whoever's name and address was written into section 6 and signed dated in section 8 and the seller should have sent the completed V5C document back to the DVLA. If you were given just the V5C/2 section 10 with your name and address on, then you will receive a new V5C document with your name and address on it and if you do not want to be the registered keeper, you will have to fill in section 6 with your son's name and address on and both of you will have to sign and date section 8 and then you will have to send the V5C document back to the DVLA who will then send a new V5C document to your son.

Hope this helps your question.

Regards Nick.

P.S. just read your latest post and as I've said above, you should not have been given the V5C document, only section 10 V5C/2.

P.P.S. is the document seller gave you red or blue on the front or is it a green slip?

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 31/08/2019 10:50:59

Hi Nicholas, your post sounds a bit like what i was reading on the DVLA site , my son was given the red/blue two page V5C documents when he paid te cash and picked the van up . It has the details of the car and the sellers details printed in it on section 5 as the registered keeper ,thats all .

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by mark smith 20 on 31/08/2019 10:27:18:

Thanks for all the replies,OK i`ll go into a little more detail.

My son has got himself into quite a lot of debt, he works full time but has to commute around 20 miles each way to work.

His debt is being dealt with officially through the CAB and the conditions are that he cant have a car with an value over £1000 . The car cost me £700, its actually a Corsavan , but it was quite a good deal and the value is likely to over £1000 for used value.

His previous car wouldnt have passed the MOT so he was in a bit of a mess. Cant get to work/lose job.

I decided to buy the vehicle for him but as the owner. He is the keeper , hes already sorted insurance and tax out whilst i was present so no worries about that ,and his insurance turned out almost half of what he was previous paying for the car.

All i really need is something to prove that i bought the vehicle and not my son. Just in case someone from CAB wants proof that my son doesnt own it.

I get on well with my son so not worried about anything like disputes with him.

I have read some of the links given above and read somewhere that the seller should maybe have did some sort of transfer of ownership thing and destroyed the rest of the V5C and then the DVLA would send out a new one to either me or my son? Thoroughly confused.

So should i just ask the seller to sign a receipt or something. The V5C document has the sellers details on it.

Thanks Mark

Edited By mark smith 20 on 31/08/2019 10:27:34

.

Mark,

There is now another word in use … almost guaranteed to cause further confusion:

"His debt is being dealt with officially through the CAB and the conditions are that he cant have a car with an value over £1000 ."

How does CAB interpret the word "have" ?

But, whatever the answer to that question: I think the first thing you need is a receipt from the seller, confirming that the van was sold to you for £700

MichaelG.

[mark smith 20Participant @marksmith20]

Posted by Peter G. Shaw on 31/08/2019 10:45:39:

Talk to CAB. Your situation will not be unique.

A receipt from the sellar isn't going to be much good, after all anyone can draw up a piece of paper stating that I, Joe Bloggs, T/A Dodgy Cars Ltd, have this day sold a van bearing registration plate ABC123 to Mark Smith 20.

The V5C is of no use in this respect – it is purely a DVLA document concerned with the Registered Keeper and contains no information on purchase or other prices.

Peter G. Shaw

My son is due a telephone interview on the 4th Sep with the relevant CAB department. So could be discussed then.

[mark smith 20Participant @marksmith20]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 31/08/2019 10:59:17:

Posted by mark smith 20 on 31/08/2019 10:27:18:

Thanks for all the replies,OK i`ll go into a little more detail.

My son has got himself into quite a lot of debt, he works full time but has to commute around 20 miles each way to work.

His debt is being dealt with officially through the CAB and the conditions are that he cant have a car with an value over £1000 . The car cost me £700, its actually a Corsavan , but it was quite a good deal and the value is likely to over £1000 for used value.

His previous car wouldnt have passed the MOT so he was in a bit of a mess. Cant get to work/lose job.

I decided to buy the vehicle for him but as the owner. He is the keeper , hes already sorted insurance and tax out whilst i was present so no worries about that ,and his insurance turned out almost half of what he was previous paying for the car.

All i really need is something to prove that i bought the vehicle and not my son. Just in case someone from CAB wants proof that my son doesnt own it.

I get on well with my son so not worried about anything like disputes with him.

I have read some of the links given above and read somewhere that the seller should maybe have did some sort of transfer of ownership thing and destroyed the rest of the V5C and then the DVLA would send out a new one to either me or my son? Thoroughly confused.

So should i just ask the seller to sign a receipt or something. The V5C document has the sellers details on it.

 

Thanks Mark

Edited By mark smith 20 on 31/08/2019 10:27:34

.

Mark,

There is now another word in use … almost guaranteed to cause further confusion:

"His debt is being dealt with officially through the CAB and the conditions are that he cant have a car with an value over £1000 ."

How does CAB interpret the word "have" ?

But, whatever the answer to that question: I think the first thing you need is a receipt from the seller, confirming that the van was sold to you for £700

MichaelG.

Michael ,i meant OWN not have. As in an asset that you can sell that you own.

Edited By mark smith 20 on 31/08/2019 11:01:30

[mark smith 20Participant @marksmith20]

To confuse me further i just found a seperate part 10 of a V5C in the wallet we were given saying to be kept by the new registered keeper but it has not been filled in and is from a different V5C document???

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by mark smith 20 on 31/08/2019 11:00:49:

.

Michael ,i meant OWN not have. As in an asset that you can sell that you own.

.

Thanks for the clarification, Mark.

My advice stands

MichaelG.

[mark smith 20Participant @marksmith20]

I bought the car through facebook locally , i have all the conversation and it says sold ,is that any kind of proof??

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Mark, you need to go back to the seller and get section 6 filled in with who's ever name you want on the V5C and both the seller and whoever is going to be the new keeper has to sign and date section 8 and the seller must send it back to the DVLA, this is the current regulations and prosecutions can be in line for those who do not comply. Hope you weren't given any "Road Tax" with it as well, because that is illegal as well, but you should have been given any current MOT documents and the green section 10 which should also have the new keepers name and address filled in. Yes do try and get a receipt for it. If the seller refuses to fill in section 6 and sign section 8 and return it to the DVLA, then you may have to consider reporting it to the authorities and inform the insurance company that your son has insured it with and I would be inclined to keep it off any public place until you get the matter sorted.

Regards Nick.

P. S. yes the red with a blue bars is the correct V5C

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 31/08/2019 11:30:00

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Mark, keep and back up your conversations, as it may be your only defence, even if it is not proof, if the situation goes sour. I don't want to be a "Party Pooper" but they don't put that yellow box with the magnifying  glass and the words "Buyer Beware" on the front of the V5C for no reason. Not suggesting that the seller is fraudulent but car crime is a serious matter.

Regards Nick.

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 31/08/2019 11:38:28

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by mark smith 20 on 31/08/2019 10:27:18:

Thanks for all the replies,OK i`ll go into a little more detail.

…

All i really need is something to prove that i bought the vehicle and not my son. Just in case someone from CAB wants proof that my son doesnt own it.

…

So should i just ask the seller to sign a receipt or something. The V5C document has the sellers details on it.

Getting the seller to sign a receipt showing what you paid for the vehicle and another bit of paper signed by your son agreeing some conditions should be enough I expect.

You could charge your son a notional fee for using or buying it (£10 a month over 7 years?). Keep a record of payments to create evidence it's not a gift. (What's done with the modest payments received is your business, the money might be used to gift a needy relative some groceries, or petrol!)

Debt management can be rough because the system has to deal with outright crooks, the sort of chap who cons pensioners, goes bust, has everything in his wife's name and is seen driving a new BMW leased from a shell company registered to himself! Seems the problem here is a missing receipt, not an abuse of the system. I would hope there wouldn't be much fuss over a second-hand £700 van when the allowance is £1000 and it's owned by dad.

Looking at the problem from the other side, it would be very difficult for anyone to prove your son did own the van, especially when you're available to say it's yours, and can identify who you bought it from! Best to have some paperwork though; it's far more convincing in a dispute than unreliable witnesses.

Dave

 

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 31/08/2019 11:32:12

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember19781]

[This posting has been removed]

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

I would have thought the value of the van in your ownership would be basic trade in and not what you paid for it. In other words the value of the van on the market today in the motor traders value book. Including the fact it now has an extra owner against it and any extra wear and tear to the paint and interior it may have.

Your son will have no visible money trail for the van, though you will via your bank statement.

You may need to show where the money came from via your bank statement If asked by whoever he owes money to, CAB is probably just trying to keep you below the legal threshold to prevent seizure of the asset.

[mark smith 20Participant @marksmith20]

Seller say he will provide a receipt in my name and ive asked him to simply sign part 8 of the V5C as ive already filled in part 6 in my sons name. Then i can return it to the DVLA and they should send him (my son) a new one .Is that right????

We`ll keep part 10 only.

Thanks Marc

Edited By mark smith 20 on 31/08/2019 11:48:43

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Mark, the seller must inform the DVLA when it is sold on or even given away, and it can be done immediately online. You should not have that V5C and it is not up to you or your son to inform the DVLA about the sale and the DVLA will send the new V5C to the new keeper not to the seller and as I've said, you will not get any current Road Tax with the sale, whoever is the new keeper will have to apply for a current Road Tax and you will have a job getting it until the DVLA has been informed of the transfer to the new keeper. This is how the regulations have been set up in recent years to help stop car frauds. Be aware that whoever owns or whoever is the registered keeper of the car, the person driving a car without tax or insurance will be committing a motoring offence and will be liable for the fines and any points on their licence for such an offence.

Regards Nick.

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 31/08/2019 12:16:44

[Pete RimmerParticipant @peterimmer30576]

I would not worry about the ownership issue, for a start you have evidence that you paid £700 for it so that's the perceived value from both your and the seller's perspective. That would satisfy the CAB. Secondly your messages showing that you bought the car, not your son. That makes you the owner and he (eventually) the registered keeper. This is actually a sensible way to do it since he'll be the user and responsible for it's usage plus any potential fines for driving, taxing or C&U offences etc but you remain the owner of the property.

The easiest way to transfer a vehicle is for the seller to do it online. It happens immediately and you go away with the new keeper slip so you can then tax the vehicle. It's possible the seller did this but they shouldn't have given you the V5c if he did it, just the new keeper bit.

If he didn't do it online then best idea is get a signature from the seller ASAP and send it off yourself so you know it's done. Keep hold of the new keeper slip so it can be taxed.

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

???

I decided to buy the vehicle for him but as the owner. He is the keeper , hes already sorted insurance and tax out whilst i was present so no worries about that ,and his insurance turned out almost half of what he was previous paying for the car.

How was tax sorted out when it seems to be not registered correctly?

[Pete RimmerParticipant @peterimmer30576]

Posted by Dave Halford on 31/08/2019 12:12:17:

How was tax sorted out when it seems to be not registered correctly?

DVLA don't care where the money comes from, all they want is the reference number off the V5C (which the new keeper should not even have) and a payment from somewhere, and that the vehicle be insured. Doesn't have to be the owner or keeper that pays.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Posted by Pete Rimmer on 31/08/2019 13:07:26:

Posted by Dave Halford on 31/08/2019 12:12:17:

How was tax sorted out when it seems to be not registered correctly?

DVLA don't care where the money comes from, all they want is the reference number off the V5C (which the new keeper should not even have) and a payment from somewhere, and that the vehicle be insured. Doesn't have to be the owner or keeper that pays.

Hi Pete, However, when the transfer is registered any tax against that reference number will become null and void.

Regards Nick.

[Pete RimmerParticipant @peterimmer30576]

Posted by Nicholas Farr on 31/08/2019 13:15:36:

Hi Pete, However, when the transfer is registered any tax against that reference number will become null and void.

Regards Nick.

Yep, and to put icing on the cake, the registered keeper gets the refund, not the person who paid.

My guess is the transfer was done online, the V5C will turn up in a few days and the son will be the properly registered keeper and the vehicle properly taxed. Most likely option since the alternative would require someone to relinquish the vehicle whilst retaining liability for any fines it might accrue.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Just tell him to say CAB bought him an old Corsa van for £700. End of story.

They want him to be able to work and keep up debt repayments, not to make life impossible for him.

If he was saying he had a three year old Mercedes Sprinter they might suggest he downsizes…

Neil

[mark smith 20Participant @marksmith20]

Ok I think i have enough of an idea of what needs to be done and i`ll update once sorted out.

Thanks to all who replied.

Mark

[peak4Participant @peak4]

Mark, there's a wide variety of, sometimes conflicting, advice on this thread; I'd really make sure you understand all of the implications of your next action before you commit yourself.

I think you would get good advice from a forum such as Pepipoo, in their Flame Pit sub-forum, (they are motoring specialists, we are for the most part engineers with other interests and opinions).

Make sure you are able to provide concise and unambiguous answers to the following questions in your first missive should you chose to post there.

How long ago was the vehicle bought by you?

Who currently holds the V5c and what is the DOCREF date on it? (the latest V5c is red; this replaced the previous blue one if you have two copies in your possession)

Who's name and address is on it? Is it the person who sold you the car?

Did the previous keeper actually own the car to sell? (i.e. is there HP on it, found by doing an HPI check?)

Who last taxed the car, how and when? (if taxed, by your son, prior to change of keeper, then the remaining tax will be cancelled, and returned to the previous registered keeper – not your son, when the vehicle is transferred to your son. He would then need to tax it again, or be in breach of legislation)

Your son will be the new registered keeper, there isn't a DVLA concept of registered owner.

N.B. all the insurance questions must be answered truthfully for obvious reasons.

As far as I'm aware, your son only has to provide an address where he can be reliably contacted. i.e. he could be the registered keeper, but at your address, though I'd check up on that in case the law has changes recently. N.B. this can also lead to further unintended complications, like council parking permits etc, as well as any NIPs for road traffic matters would be sent to your address, not his if he's flown the coop.

When I bought my van a few years ago, the seller and I changed me to registered keeper on-line at his premises; we then both kept printouts of the confirmation. I was then able to tax it on-line in my name.

Bill

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember19781]

[This posting has been removed]

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