Cutting oils

[flatlineParticipant @flatline]

I am reading Geo H. Thomas’ book ‘The Model Engineers Workshop Manual’ – published in1992 I think….

on the subject of machining silver-steel he ‘thoroughly recommends Shell Garia H’ as a cutting oil…

Various internet searches have provided no further info, so no doubt this ‘Garia H’ has been replaced by a newer product, but can anyone tell me by what, or an equivalent??

Many Thanks in Advance 😎🇬🇧👍

[JonParticipant @jon]

Couple of mins found its replaced by Garia TC12.

Its nothing more than a neat cutting oil for industrial heavy duty applications as:-

• deep hole drilling
• broaching and tapping
• gear cutting and shaving
• reaming
• grinding, honing and lapping
• turning, planing, shaping, drilling and milling

Outside realms of hobbiests theres many others, worlds your oyster on better serving lubes.

[flatlineParticipant @flatline]

Many thanks – a ‘Google-Search’ provides zero information tho… 🤷‍♂️

[JonParticipant @jon]

That was Google!

[flatlineParticipant @flatline]

Ok… so I ‘Googled’ Shell Garia TC12… but I certainly can’t find any reference to a current source.. 🤷‍♂️

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Just for fun, I tried asking ChatGPT  the direct question

what replaced shell garia H

and was impressed by its answer

[ which might, of course, be wrong ]

MichaelG.

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

What was the answer Michael?

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

I didn’t disclose that … because I wanted you to try for yourselves

Just post what l quoted into the question box here:

https://chatgpt.com/

MichaelG.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

[ duplicate post deleted ]

[flatlineParticipant @flatline]

Admin…

[FulmenParticipant @fulmen]

I cook my own from rape seed oil. Just add 5% sulfur and heat gently until all is dissolved and the oil darkens. Smells a bit funky and will harden over time if exposed to air, but works just as well as Rocol RTD (if not better).

[Clive Brown 1Participant @clivebrown1]

Same question into Google AI seems to give a more up-to-date answer. Shell no longer manufacture the Garia brand.

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

I use Clarkes cutting oil. 1 litre bottles. Last ages so the cost is minimal.

Steve.

[Clive Brown 1]

On Clive Brown 1 Said:

Same question into Google AI seems to give a more up-to-date answer. Shell no longer manufacture the Garia brand.

I will try that, if I ever run out of cutting oil.  Seems to be really cheap, apart from being very effective.  Is 5% the optimal, maximum that will dissolve or just asequate?

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Unles syou want to by 20lts plus I would suggest looking at what is available in hobby size quantities rather than looking for the closest match to an industrial product which won’t come in 1lts bottles. Also the technology put into cutting oils has come a long way since then and ther will be better products for the job.

[Michael Gilligan]

On Michael Gilligan Said:

I didn’t disclose that … because I wanted you to try for yourselves

Just post what l quoted into the question box here:

https://chatgpt.com/

MichaelG.

I just had a look at the very comprehensive reply, most interesting.

Tony

[Graham MeekParticipant @grahammeek88282]

Shell Garia H was replaced many years ago. The option to purchase Shell metal working oils in 5 litre cans also went about the same time. Like Castrol they only want to deal with bulk users.

I have found a product by Smith & Allan to be extremely good and will work well with brass. It certainly stops the small splinters of brass from flying everywhere.

“Neat Cutting Oil for Sawing Threading Milling Turning Tapping Drilling 5 Litre” If you put this in a Google search along with Smith & Allan it will take you to a source. I can lasts me several years. I have found the small plastic dispenser bottles with a detachable needle point to be an ideal applicator.

Regards

Gray,

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Hi Fulmen, can you tell me where abouts in Norway you are ? Just returned from there. Noel.

[FulmenParticipant @fulmen]

I’m in Porsgrunn, about halfway between Oslo and Kristiansand.

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

Sorry Fulmen but if your cutting oil mix is better than rocol why are they still in business???

[FulmenParticipant @fulmen]

Because I’m not? 🙂

Idunno if it’s better, I have no way of testing that claim. But it really works, and it does smoke less than rocol. Sulfurized vegetable oils are some of the oldest EP additives and should pose little hazard to man or beast.

[howardbParticipant @howardb]

My go to for cutting oil is chainsaw bar oil.

It’s got the sticky additive so does’t fling off

https://shorturl.at/7aIuw

Also used as slideway oil.

Cheapish in france in a supermarket at about €14 for 5 litres.

Everybody’s grandma over here owns a chainsaw.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Why so keen on home-made, obsolete and substitutes when commercial cutting oils are available?

Hunting down an obsolete product is hard to justify because it was withdrawn for a reason.  Maybe toxic, corrosive, inflammable, carcinogenic, a biohazard, or simply inferior to later products.     Rather than look for an alternative to a product withdrawn 40 years ago,  I suggest it’s better to research modern products and choose from them to match the work in hand.

Home-made suffers from process and material limitations.  For example, Fulmen’s recipe made with Flowers Of Sulphur will contain some Sulphuric Acid.  Not the end of the world, but…

Cutting Oils have two main functions – to lubricate and remove heat.  And washing swarf away if applied in a flood.  Almost any oil will lubricate, but a poor choice will tend to decompose, perhaps producing unpleasant fumes, or corrosive by-products, as well as not working well.   EP Gear Oil works well but it attacks Brass and Bronze.   The best liquid for removing heat is water, but it’s a poor lubricant and causes rust, which is counterbalanced by emulsifying it with an oil.  There is no universal cutting oil!  Paraffin works well on Aluminium but not on Steel.  Suds work well on steel but not on Aluminium, etc etc.  How important it is to get cutting oil right depends mostly on volume, where tool-life and finish are financially critical.  Not how I work!  Very often, I cut with carbide and don’t use cutting oil at all.  It’s a compromise, designed to reduce mess!    In low volumes dabbing random fluids with a brush works well-enough, but that’s another compromise – convenience!  High volume cutting requires more careful choice of fluid and how it’s applied.

Many traditional cutting fluids are downright dangerous because they are decomposed by nasty bacteria.  Before antibiotics swarf cuts often ended in amputations or worse, even after cutting oils were rendered less harmful by adding disinfectants.    Full-fat milk is an excellent cutting fluid.  Only recommended to anyone who enjoys taking a walk on the wild side!  Otherwise, avoid!

Dave

 

 

 

 

[SillyOldDuffer]

On SillyOldDuffer Said:

Why so keen on home-made, obsolete and substitutes when commercial cutting oils are available?

Rape seed oil is about 1/10th the cost of 5lts of Rocol Multisol and 1/30th that of RDT which may have something to do with it

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Jason has said it ! A bottle (500ml) of RTD is about £25 ! The nozzel makes it easy to use and only a drop is needed but a careless operator can use a bottle a day and it’s still £25. I like the idea of Fulmens recipe.  Noel.

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