Cure for Tight Nuts

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I'm sure a few others watch CEE's weekly videos but for those that don't here is an interesting way to cure a stuck nut.

And who said "Dickson" type tool posts were not rigid? His Dorian one seems quite solid.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Nice job. He did well to get that nut off without trashing the shaft. Good sized loader the cylinder came off too. Looked like about 5 scoops to fill that 100+ ton dump truck.

His use of the fixed steady as well as the tailstock centre is something very applicable to rigidity-challenged hobby lathes too. I find myself using mine more and more.

Will be interested to see Part 2 on making the nut, then cutting the male thread to fit the nut. That is how I was taught to do it, and the hell with all the agonising over perfect thread depths and forms etc. Make it fit and be done with it. On large one-offs like that where universality is not an issue anyway.

Obviously the factory would have to stick to exact proper thread forms and tolerances so all nuts fit all shafts when shipped to the other side of the world  as spare parts. That is why one nut costs $3,000.

Edited By Hopper on 23/06/2023 14:23:18

Edited By Hopper on 23/06/2023 14:27:59

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I think the tailstock support is even more critical on that one as the chuck is only really driving the job and it could walk out of the two jaws that are gripping it. Steady will make it easy when it comes to test fitting the nut that is if it can't be slipped over the tailstock before he starts cutting the thread

[John McNamaraParticipant @johnmcnamara74883]

Curtis and his partner are amazing… Big Iron Big chips and no advertising, Oh and a big dog too.
He has more You Tube subscribers than Abom now.

[Martin King 2Participant @martinking2]

I am constantly amazed that Curtis (Kurtis?) seems to do all this on his own.

The ease (apparent) with which he move these gigantic lumps of steel around is simply awesome.

The machines are just fantastic to watch in action.

Martin

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

Tipped tools and cutting fluid.

[John Doe 2Participant @johndoe2]

The prices blow my mind. 20 grand for a rod, and 3 grand for a nut ?? 3 grand ?? You could buy a 2nd hand car for that. Or a bike.

It seems odd to my untrained eye that a nut in such a specialised situation would need to have six machined faces. Surely it would only need two machined parallel faces to do it up ? Or do they use huge 6 or 12 point sockets for that?

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

Always a great watch, my favourite you tube subject. The dog is a star, I saw a recent episode where a parcel of dog treats was received from the USA from an admirer.

[Kiwi BlokeParticipant @kiwibloke62605]

Marks & Spencer?

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

Watch all CEE vids. The dog takes the biscuit. His wife does fantastic video too. Who said Youtube was crap.

Steve.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by John Doe 2 on 23/06/2023 19:27:01:

The prices blow my mind. 20 grand for a rod, and 3 grand for a nut ?? 3 grand ?? You could buy a 2nd hand car for that. Or a bike.

It seems odd to my untrained eye that a nut in such a specialised situation would need to have six machined faces. Surely it would only need two machined parallel faces to do it up ? Or do they use huge 6 or 12 point sockets for that?

They do have very large sockets and spanners to fit such nuts. Often a flogging spanner, a 12-point ring spanner with short handle with a square pad on the end to be "flogged" with a very large (28lb) sledge hammer. Hex allows multiple positions to allow access for the spanner among surrounding machinery when working on site.

3 Grand is not much in heavy industry. One steam turbine chrome-moly casing stud can cost that much. OEM manufacturers do add considerable margin of course, which is why Curtis can do it cheaper. But still quite a few hours of machining time in a job like that and I am sure he books machining time out at least at $150 an hour to cover his overheads on those large machine tools plus his skilled time. Could be a day's work making one nut. Looking forward to seeing the video on that.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

The bar that the rod is made from is not cheap to start with, it is hardened to a depth of about 5mm then hones, hard chromed and finally finish honed. When making new rods he has to start with diamond tooling (no not the tangental type) to get through the hard layers. Even then its not exactly free cutting.

I seem to remember the last large nut he made was done from thick wall round material rather than hex stock so a fair bit of work with the outside to do too.

Shipping costs from the US or Japan depending on the paint colour will be high and then there is the downtime to be considered in the overall cost, if a part is going to take a couple of months to arrive by sea then it is going to cost a lot having the machine sit idle which is where he comes in and can usually make things faster,

Just wish I could weld like he can.

Edited By JasonB on 24/06/2023 07:34:25

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Flogging spanner and as Hopper says if using a long bar having six positions allows it to be swung in a smaller arc

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

A few good sized commercially made jobs here, part of a turbine tool kit.

 

Hex nut also spreads the load/damage across six points rather than two if you just machine two flats.

Edited By Hopper on 24/06/2023 09:44:06

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Hopper on 24/06/2023 01:12:08:

Posted by John Doe 2 on 23/06/2023 19:27:01:

The prices blow my mind. 20 grand for a rod, and 3 grand for a nut ?? 3 grand ?? You could buy a 2nd hand car for that. Or a bike.

…

…

3 Grand is not much in heavy industry. One steam turbine chrome-moly casing stud can cost that much. OEM manufacturers do add considerable margin of course, which is why Curtis can do it cheaper. But still quite a few hours of machining time in a job like that and I am sure he books machining time out at least at $150 an hour to cover his overheads on those large machine tools plus his skilled time. Could be a day's work making one nut. Looking forward to seeing the video on that.

Above a certain organisational size, 3 Grand is tiny money. My boss once remarked he wouldn't get out of bed for less than £100k. He was being flippant of course, but even small organisations work in millions.

On the shop-floor, individuals might think they only cost the firm what's in their pay-packet. Not so! The firm also pays National Insurance, Rates, Tax, Heating & Lighting, Sewage and Water, for the Building, tools, materials, training, paid-holidays, sick-leave, injuries, and much else.

How much above pay-packet people cost the firm depends on the job, but the average is about double salary. So having a busy digger out of action for any length of time costs a fortune, so well worth having someone like Curtis on hand, even though I sure he charges big money for his services. John Stevenson did this kind of work too – not easy, high-skill, working fast, having the right tools, understanding materials, working around problems and having enormous cojones!

I would have given up after trying WD40!

Dave

PS I hope everyone watched the out-takes at the end! Much 'Industrial Language' when the job and/or making the video went wrong! I suspect getting that nut off was much was much harder to do than expected.

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

The metal flow when goughing reminds me just like the metal and dross flow when using a thermic lance to cut concrete.

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Every man has his own way of doing a job ! This may also come down to what equipment is to hand. I would have turned to the oxy cutting process to remove the nut. This is a chemical process of rapid oxidisation, an exothermic reaction where once started it can be continue without further heating. With a clean nozzle and a skilled operator steel can be almost surgically removed. The cutting process only takes place when the metal is at the right temperature and this can be used to cut one part away whilst not damaging the other. The air arc process is at best messy and cuts what ever the arc can strike to as was shown by the damage to the thread. The oxygen process will only work on ordinary steels, not high chrome /stainless types where it may need modifying to achieve sucess. Air plasma has the benefit of being a simple melting process which will work on almost any metal. Spark erosion/EDM will remove vertually any electrically conductive material and is very accurate.

Since the job in hand was going in the lathe I think I would have machined the nut away, this would have avoided the thread damage, taken the few galled/damaged threads off and made a new but standard sized nut. Having heated things I was surprised that no oil was used to help unscrew/ remove the nut. In the context of larger gear my spanners go to 60mm and sockets to 80mm.

For those who only have an arc welder and need to dismantle something there is the gougeing rod, messy but used carefully is a good way to remove metal !

If one has a broken bearing with the outer race stuck in place, run a bead of weld round the inside or groove and it will FALL out ! Ah well, Noel.

Edited By noel shelley on 24/06/2023 10:16:18

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

He is a dab hand with the oxy too so I expect he had his reasons as explained

He may not have had to put the part into the lathe depending on what damage there was to the male thread and had he not nicked it

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 24/06/2023 09:51:06:

Posted by Hopper on 24/06/2023 01:12:08:

Posted by John Doe 2 on 23/06/2023 19:27:01:

The prices blow my mind. 20 grand for a rod, and 3 grand for a nut ?? 3 grand ?? You could buy a 2nd hand car for that. Or a bike.

…

…

3 Grand is not much in heavy industry. One steam turbine chrome-moly casing stud can cost that much. OEM manufacturers do add considerable margin of course, which is why Curtis can do it cheaper. But still quite a few hours of machining time in a job like that and I am sure he books machining time out at least at $150 an hour to cover his overheads on those large machine tools plus his skilled time. Could be a day's work making one nut. Looking forward to seeing the video on that.

Above a certain organisational size, 3 Grand is tiny money.

It looks like he does contract work for the mining industry someplace like Western Australia. Multi-multi-million dollar industy where, as you say, it is tiny money. Every hour that machine is out of action is probably costing many many thousands of dollars in lost revenue. So turnaround time to ship/fly a new nut from the USA would be a consideration too. Or even to fly/truck it from within Australia. That is one reason Australia and NZ have such a well established culture of making new parts rather than buying.

But like all industries, even big industries are run by bean counters these days, so if they can save a few thousand on a repair job over and over again, they will. It's good work for Curtis.

Yes, looks much like John Stephenson's work but on a larger scale. Guys who can fix stuff will always be in demand. Problem is today that most of those guys are our age and retiring. Not many of Curtis's generation are picking up the reins. And that is a shame.

[Brian WoodParticipant @brianwood45127]

Posted by Martin King 2 on 23/06/2023 18:35:17:

I am constantly amazed that Curtis (Kurtis?) seems to do all this on his own.

The ease (apparent) with which he move these gigantic lumps of steel around is simply awesome.

The machines are just fantastic to watch in action.

Martin

Curtis did explain once why he works on his own. One was of course the added costs involved in employing someone but in his book the governing factor was finding an individual like him he could trust to do the work in a way that he, Curtis, found acceptable. It was easier not to look and get things done instead!

John Stevenson has been mentioned in similar context as another of these rare types and he always worked alone, and could turn his hand to anything mechanical.

Brian

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

i would have cut most of that nut with an angle grinder, too tight at the bottom though

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Problem is today that most of those guys are our age and retiring. Not many of Curtis's generation are picking up the reins. And that is a shame.

How right Hopper is ! I bought welding and cutting gear in my teens, it was a very different world, with far fewer rules or legislation. It was to be the beginning of my own business.To do so now would be costly, Would a modern teenager do it after doing CDT or what ever it is called now at school ? I doubt it ! Noel.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Another great video below of him making a very similar shaft from scratch. Using induction-hardened chromed rod. The guy is a defiinte craftsman. Well worth watching. It is big stuff but lots of little tricks there relevant to the home workshop. He certainly screwcuts at a good clip, both RPM wise and depth of cut wise. Fits it to the nut and finishes it off with a file along the peaks and emery tape.

[jon hill 3Participant @jonhill3]

Just curious to know what tolerences he was working to? That rod seemed to have a fare bit of run-out, even the steady guide wheels where set 'loose'. Of coarse the rod might not be that straight, and perhaps for this purpose +-20 thou might be good enough over 2-3meters…

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