Correct Performance of Fixed Steadies

[martyn nutlandParticipant @martynnutland79495]

A very basic question I'm afraid, but something about which I'm not sure.

How 'steady' should a fixed steady be? I run a Chester Super B and a couple of years ago I bought a fixed steady and a traveling steady for my machine from Chester. Thus one can assume I have the right part for the model.

But when I use the fixed steady I find it very difficult to get a solid set-up. I.e. the steady's fingers never grip the workpiece very firmly nor its feet the bed of the lathe. I use packing between the gybs on the steady and the underside of the bed and that does help but I'm never very happy with the arrangement.

So, question very simply is, are we looking for 'solid' or is 'slop' what one would expect?

Thanks in advance for any guidance.

Martyn (and a reflective Christmas and a peaceful, safe, and above all, healthy 2016 from Paris and this troubled world of ours.)

[martyn nutlandParticipant @martynnutland79495]

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I suspect the biggest problem is that your lathe has a very high spindle height in relation to the bed width which will make the steady less stable than a wider bed machine.

I had to clean a bit of stray paint off the bottom of my fixed steady but it does bolt solidly to the lathe bed now and the fingers are rigid.

 

J

Edited By JasonB on 16/12/2015 16:45:16

[Anonymous]

Rock steady! A good heave on the parts shouldn't move the steady on the bed, or the work in the steady. Cutting should be possible without chatter and as good a finish as normal turning:

Andrew

[martyn nutlandParticipant @martynnutland79495]

Jason

That's true. One reason I bought the Super B was the clearance bed to spindle. Enough to turn an Austin Seven flywheel!

And Andrew.

That's one 'helluva' steady. Not like you get from Chester! So we must go for 'rock'.

Understood.

Thank you.

Martyn

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

My mini-lathe fixed steady is nice and solid – just a bit of a struggle to lock in place unless you use a stubby ring spanner

Don't the fingers of your have locking nuts?

[Anonymous]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 16/12/2015 19:04:06:

Don't the fingers of your have locking nuts?

No, nor on the travelling steady.

Andrew

[Nigel McBurney 1Participant @nigelmcburney1]

The steady shown is not up to the job,the lathe centre height is too high for the overall size of the machine,the only way to try to get a good performance would be to reduce the spindle speed far below the the usual speed and take your time.It may help to stiffen the steady by making a curved reinforcing steel strip between the top of the steady and the front so that the frame of the steady is a full circle,In the photo the steady looks very clean,with no oil stains,are you lubricating the pads with oil? When using a steady on some jobs i.e. large cylinder liners I rig up a drip feed oiler to keep the pads lubricated.I would also asked is the workpiece out of balance,if it is it will naturally affect the steady.

[martyn nutlandParticipant @martynnutland79495]

No…as Andrew says, or in my case, just hex drive cap screws for the three fingers and one, on the leg on one side, through the gyb

So, as I see it, on the Chester (aka Chinese) design(!), you pull the one leg of the steady as tight as you can against the underside of the bed, then tighten the threaded gyn on the other side (with or without packing, but normally with, as otherwise it is extremely floppy) via the cap screw and an Allen key. Result, in my experience, overall floppy!

As I also see it, all Neil's lock nuts would achieve is to lock the floppy set-up.

Maybe I'm missing something.

Martyn

[EmgeeParticipant @emgee]

Another substantial fixed steady on a Denford Orac, modified base to suit this lathe, very sturdy.

Emgee.

.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by Nigel McBurney 1 on 16/12/2015 19:37:35:

The steady shown is not up to the job,……………….

Where are you seeing this steady? Martyn has not put up a picture

[martyn nutlandParticipant @martynnutland79495]

No Jason, I think Nigel means your steady is not 'up to the job'.

My steady should be 'up to the job' because, as I was at pains to explain, I bought it from Chester as it was specifically for the Super B machine.

Now I have to make a confession that I honestly, honestly did not think was relevant when I started this thread; but perhaps it is. I had a big row with Chester at the time over these items. They took ages to arrive and when they did they were very battered and had clearly been used (maybe abused) although I paid list price.

I took this up with Chester, who I don't like as a supplier, and they said the steadies were in the state they were because they had been on the shelf for years. This was clearly a load of b—–ks. They had been using them at an exhibition, which explained the delay in despatch and they were in fact 'second hand'.

This needn't have been said, but as everyone seems to have steadies that are as steady as a rock, I feel I must be totally honest.

Martyn

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

You said at the beginning that it wasn't firmly fixed on the bed. You need to start by looking at the mounting. Perhaps the surfaces are not flat, parallel, there is paint on them etc. When you have it rock solid such that you can not feel any knock as you push it around then move onto stage two.

We don't even know what it looks like so can't give much more advice.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

This is my steady, from Arc. It works just like the one on the Denford except it doesn't open up, and probably has even more meat in it..

This (from Machine Mart) is the steady for the Cl500M which I think is equivalent to the Chester B Super Multi.

It has screws to remove any play in the fingers. The locking mechanism looks OK to me, but it sounds like Martyn is running out of adjustment before it locks? Or maybe, as Jason suggests, paint needs to be removed from underneath.

Other possibility would be a high spot on the contact surface, which should be easy to correct with a bit of blue.

Neil

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Assuming the Chester Super B to be the item shown here

Centre Height 210mm [forgive me if this is the wrong machine]

Although a travelling steady should be viable; it would be quite difficult to engineer a decent fixed steady, and I would be interested to see an illustration of Chester's effort … perhaps for good reason, this does not appear to be currently listed as an accessory.

MichaelG.

… A spare tailstock base might make a good foundation for a 'home brew' fixed steady.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 17/12/2015 00:18:11

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Some points.

Andrews steady does have locking facilities, they are grub screws fitted to the 3 bosses facing rearwards in line with each finger.

Nothing wrong with Jason's steady, bet if truth be know it's done more work than the average OAP.

The clue is in the name, STEADY, it steady's work. It not work holding, a chuck or a vise and is used accordingly.

The big, nay, read massive, crank grinders used to grind the Merlin cranks had steady's with wooden fingers and they did a sterling job.

Never having used a Chester B type steady but appreciating that it could have problems due to the centre hight then care must be taken to see that it does fit the bed as well as possible. May also help to plate the hight up to working hight with two thickish steel plates bolted front and back to make it more rigid.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Martyn, a picture of your steady/ies would save a thousand words.

But for starters, you need to get rid of bits of shim between the steady and the bed. The steady needs to be locked solid to the ways. You may need to look at the length of thread on the clamping bolt, or some washers under the nut, or perhaps a piece of casting sticking out preventing full clamping movement.

[martyn nutlandParticipant @martynnutland79495]

Good advice. I'll try these solutions. I think the Chester design is probably a 'dud' now I know things should be 'rock solid'.

Thanks again.

Martyn

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

The Centurion is basically the same lathe as you can see this IS a steady that is too tall for the bed width unlike mine which does the job perfectly well.

Faced and bored 7" deep

 

Edited By JasonB on 17/12/2015 07:47:02

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

I apologise in advance if I am questioning your experience but you do understand that steadies are intended to run on portions of the work that are already truly circular and concentric with the spindle.? It's there to resist cutting forces not to centre the work.

Sorry if you already know this but not everyone does when they first start out and I have no idea how long you have been at this. If you do understand just ignore me.

regards Martin

[Anonymous]

Posted by John Stevenson on 17/12/2015 00:49:02:

Andrews steady does have locking facilities, they are grub screws fitted to the 3 bosses facing rearwards in line with each finger.

Yep, noticed them last night, and just checked. They are indeed locking grubscrews; same on the travelling steady.

One learns something every day, even if it's only that I'm a wally.

Andrew

[martyn nutlandParticipant @martynnutland79495]

Hello Martin with an 'i'

I never supposed that steadies were anything to do with centering work.

I thought they were to resist the deflection of long thin work under the pressure of the cutting tool; either, in the case of a fixed steady, while one performed an operation on a relatively short section of the work, or, in the case of a travelling steady, if one was transversing a much longer section with the tool.

What I didn't know was that you needed to machine an accurate bearing surface (a journal, if you like) on which the steady could bear. I assumed that if you bought a piece of bar from the likes of Noggin End or Mallard or whoever, its diameter and parallelism would be within sufficient limits of accuracy for you to attach the steady and turn whatever was needed.

Thanks for that enlightenment.

Martyn with a 'y'.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

The comments about paint on mating surfaces are very pertinent.

Recently I had dealings with a Chester Conquest, and found that the surfaces that mate with the bed on both the Tailstock, and the Fixed Steady were covered in overspray. A little rubbing, with some Emery removed the overspray

And Yes, I did wipe off the dust (Hopefully all of it). The plates that clamp the tailstock, and steady to the bed look a bit flimsy, to my mind, but that can be remedied in time. Other jobs intervene, currently.

The Model B does have a fairly large centre height so, don't be overambitious when turning the longer length of the work. Better to take smaller cuts without deflecting the steady than to rush and make a scrapper.

a) you do need to clamp the work with just a short piece protruding from the chuck, and turn to finish diameter, for a length that will allow clearance for the tool behind the steady, to turn the rest of the length.

b) Set up the steady to this diameter.

c)The work should then be pulled out of the chuck far enough to to turn the length required, as the steady is moved back towards the tailstock.

d) When all is ready to start turning, clamp the steady, and then tighten the chuck.

e) Oil the fingers of the steady, and then start turning. Don't let the fingers run dry!

With a bit of care and luck, you will achieve the required result.

Howard

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

The above only really works if the material is short and slender enough to fit within the chuck body or very slender so it will pass down the spindle bore. Andrews example would not fit any further into the chuck and my example simply won't fit in a chuck, in these cases you need to get a bit more inventive

I've not had problems running "as supplied" bright mild steel in the steady, probably could not cut a better bearing surface on it without using a steady anyway

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by martyn nutland on 17/12/2015 14:28:15:

. I assumed that if you bought a piece of bar from the likes of Noggin End or Mallard or whoever, its diameter and parallelism would be within sufficient limits of accuracy for you to attach the steady and turn whatever was needed.

That's a fair assumption, but it is important the steady is accurately centred because if teh steady forces the work off centre bad things will happen.

For long cylindrical work I set the steady close to the chuck, then slide t along to the end.

Not possible with Jason's hopper engine so you would need to set the bearing surface running true with a dial indicator or more likely he took a skim off it before applying the steady.

Neil

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