Converting German metal grades to UK

[Curtis RutterParticipant @curtisrutter61973]

[Curtis RutterParticipant @curtisrutter61973]

I've been given plans for a engine I'd like to build but they're in German. I've successfully converted the document to English with the exception of the grading of the stock. The stock is graded using DIN numbers but I have no idea what these equate to in British Standards. Any ideas?

[David JuppParticipant @davidjupp51506]

Often there is no exact equivalent, though usually something that is close.

Sites like Matweb may be useful in listing 'equivalents' if you just type in the grade, or type into a search engine 'steel' followed by the DIN number – often you'll get at least enough information to get started.

Current BS/EN standards for steels typically include a 'material number' which is the German Werkstoff number – so if you aren't wedded to older BS version names/numbers, you may find some materials are quite easy to find.

 

Edited By David Jupp on 08/02/2017 14:02:36

[Martin 100Participant @martin100]

engineers black book

Sub £20 on ebay last I looked and good value for money

Or if you are skint then just list them here and I'll look them up

Edited By Martin 100 on 08/02/2017 14:28:39

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

The Wikipedia entry on steel grades **LINK** has the common, basic, En numbers folk like us usually use under the BS970 table.

These days its probably easier to work with the modern composition based numbers eg 9SMn36 or CF9SMn36 = En 1A for example. Its what you will get anyway.

If you do use the Wiki page their EN column is not our En. Confusing. Our En is in BS970.

For model purposes its probably not terribly critical anyway unless you are welding or case-hardening.

Engineers Black Book is interesting but the different USA & Second Edition (metric) content is irritating as I would really need both to cover imperial and metric.

Clive.

[Curtis RutterParticipant @curtisrutter61973]

Posted by Martin 100 on 08/02/2017 14:27:47:

engineers black book

Sub £20 on ebay last I looked and good value for money

Or if you are skint then just list them here and I'll look them up

Edited By Martin 100 on 08/02/2017 14:28:3

That looks perfect, have ordered one, arrives Friday. lots more info that I'm sure in time to come will be required too

 

Edited By Curtis Rutter on 08/02/2017 15:13:58

[richardandtracyParticipant @richardandtracy]

My local stockist does this pdf chart:

**LINK**

The new BS EN 10277 numbers are basically the German DIN numbers.

Regards,

Richard

[Martin 100Participant @martin100]

Posted by Clive Foster on 08/02/2017 14:49:19:

Engineers Black Book is interesting but the different USA & Second Edition (metric) content is irritating as I would really need both to cover imperial and metric.

I'm not convinced you'd need both. From the selective online preview of the US edtion compared to my physical metric edition the content appears near identical, it's just the ordering of the information. In the metric editon it appears at the top of the page or in the leftmost column. the imperial data is normally towards the bottom of the page or in a column one place to the right. The US version simply reverses the priority.

[JohnFParticipant @johnf59703]

Curtis, please look at your PM's I have a pretty good pdf conversion chart but no idea how to load it on this site — if anyone can explain how I will do so ? John

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by JohnF on 08/02/2017 20:41:49:

Curtis, please look at your PM's I have a pretty good pdf conversion chart but no idea how to load it on this site — if anyone can explain how I will do so ? John

I can load pdfs, if emailed to me, but only if there are no issues with copyright.

Neil

[vintagengineerParticipant @vintagengineer]

I was led to understand that EN stood for Emergency Number issued by the Government in the last war due to steel makers had all their own grades.

[Curtis RutterParticipant @curtisrutter61973]

Posted by JohnF on 08/02/2017 20:41:49:

Curtis, please look at your PM's I have a pretty good pdf conversion chart but no idea how to load it on this site — if anyone can explain how I will do so ? John

Replied to your pm JohnF many thanks

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by vintagengineer on 08/02/2017 21:29:48:

I was led to understand that EN stood for Emergency Number issued by the Government in the last war due to steel makers had all their own grades.

I have a copy of 'War Emergency British Standard Schedule 970:1942 – Wrought Steels", Price 5/- net, post free.

In the foreword it explains that it was prepared by the Iron and Steel Committee. This committee consisted of 34 Government, Scientific and Industrial Organisations ranging from the Admiralty to the Steel Castings Association, including several long gone authorities like the High Commissioner for India.

Standardisation was driven by the Technical and Advisory Committee of the Committee of Steel Control of the Ministry of Supply. MoS had been set up in 1939 to coordinate war supply to the Army, Navy and Air Force and it had very wide ranging powers, essentially controlling the British War Economy.

The first version of BS870 was issued in 1941. The 1942 standard defines 33 groups of steel intended for general engineering purposes and it stopped Industry 'doing it's own thing'. Before the war, many companies produced dozens of similar but different steels, all competing with each other. The need for a new steel standard had been recognised before the war. The earlier standard, BS5005:1924 hadn't, for example, kept up with the new steels used for car making. Work in this area was folded into the new system.

TAC numbers were used briefly before En numbers appeared. Consequently they feature conspicuously in the standard. For example, the 1942 version says of En1 and En1A "With little or no modification these specifications cover the essentials of the following classifications and specifications: TAC1, V.1, V.1A, SAE.1112, SAE1113, AMS.5010A". I wonder if anyone remembers TAC steel specifications: I'd never heard of them!

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 08/02/2017 22:58:03

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 08/02/2017 22:58:46

[JohnFParticipant @johnf59703]

Hi Everyone, spoke to Neil and the chart I have is from Sandvik but copyright means it cannot be posed alone, however here is a link to their site and if you scroll down to the Materials Cross Reference chart you will find it.

**LINK**

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

Posted by vintagengineer on 08/02/2017 21:29:48:

I was led to understand that EN stood for Emergency Number issued by the Government in the last war due to steel makers had all their own grades.

IIRC, the "EN" used in European standards is short for "European Norm" ie is harmonised so that there is some consistency and we use the same common standards. Quite commendable and an improvement on having loads of different standards to work with. Of course, we seem to have decided that all this harmonisation stuff is poppycock and we can do it better on our own again.

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