Colchester Student Mk1 Won’t Start

[Stuart BridgerParticipant @stuartbridger82290]

The majority of threads on my 1963 Chipmaster are Unified, mostly UNC.

[Phil WhitleyParticipant @philwhitley94135]

Good point Stuart! So if it is UNF it will be 20TPI and UNC would be 13TPI, so if Richard can count the number of threads in an inch, he has it!

Phil

[Richard Kirkman 1Participant @richardkirkman1]

I managed to completely avoid the thread. It seems the thread was meant to be used to pull the shaft out, but I did it another way.

I put lots of penetrating oil down the grub screw holes, then I attached some vice grips to the underside of the shaft, slowly starting to wiggle it bar. It took about half an hour or so, but I managed to wiggle it out eventually

Now I should be able to layout some marks for the new motor. I'll do that tomorrow

Any tips for aligning the motor and laying the holes out perfectly?

I was thinking, the old holes will be aligned properly, so if I make a centerline between each of those holes then use that line to lay everything out for, it should keep the pulley aligned? I'm just wanting to keep it square since then I can move the pulley wherever it needs to be on the shaft.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

If you can lay a straight edge across the driven pulley, the motor should then moved to align so that the straight edge also lies across the pulley on the motor shaft.

If all else fails, cut a bit of angle iron and clamp that to both pulleys while you drill the holes for the motor mounting bolts.

HTH

Howard

[Richard Kirkman 1Participant @richardkirkman1]

Posted by Howard Lewis on 22/03/2020 20:20:35:

If you can lay a straight edge across the driven pulley, the motor should then moved to align so that the straight edge also lies across the pulley on the motor shaft.

If all else fails, cut a bit of angle iron and clamp that to both pulleys while you drill the holes for the motor mounting bolts.

HTH

Howard

Thanks, Howard

Problem with that is, I've taken the mounting plate out of the lathe already, and I'm quite tight on space when it's in there. I also don't have much space for marking the holes out while the motor is in place since the body lies over the holes as I cannot get a pen or marker in, nor a scribe as the casting is deeper than my scribes tip. I suppose I could make a tool

I'll have a look at trying that tomorrow!

Thanks!

[Richard Kirkman 1Participant @richardkirkman1]

Good progress was made today

I blued up the motor plate, marked between the old holes, then plotted my new hole locations from that line.

I marked an inch wide slot, drilled the ends out, then used a jigsaw with a metal cutting blade to make slots, then filed the slots to size. Motor fits nicely with room for movement.

Once that was done, I took advantage of the motor plate being out as I cleaned loads of gunk out from the frame. Then I looked at the limit switches wiring. I had Issues as the wire wasn't long enough to reach, but I found some slack, twisted the wires and got it all sorted.

So, the next task is to redo the gaskets and sort out the contactor. I need a little help figuring out the contactor since I'm not sure where the wires need to go

 

So, from Phils lathes wiring, I understand I need the three blue cables coming from the switch to go into the L1 L2 and L3 at the top of the contactor.

The yellow needs to go into the top of the contactor, then the red and blue somewhere else? Which ones do they need to go in?

Also, which ones do the cables to the motor go in. Do they go into the lowest 3 at the bottom, or the other 4 on the relay?

Looks like we're on lockdown now, So I may as well get it all done!

Thanks

Edited By Richard Kirkman 1 on 23/03/2020 21:18:53

[Phil WhitleyParticipant @philwhitley94135]

Hi Richard, very neat work in the motor plate, I have done this job many times, and how easy it is is in direct proportion to how heavy the motor is, and how well you can get in to the job! It is NEVER easy!

The three blue wires from the rotary switch go to L1 L2 and L3 on the top of the contactor. 13 NO (normally open) and 14 NO are the holding in contacts which operate the no volt release. the three wires to the motor connect to the A b and C connections on the overload. Did you get a wiring diagram with the contactor? if so, can you scan it and email or post up a copy and I can do a diagram for you.

Phil.

[Richard Kirkman 1Participant @richardkirkman1]

Thanks, Phil, It really would have been a nightmare if I hadn't taken the motor plate out of the lathe! The jigsaw made it so much quicker, I would have been there a lot longer chain drilling and filing otherwise

I'll fit the blue and black wires then I'll get some more pictures for you. It didn't come with a diagram but there was a diagram on the side of the contactor so I'll get a picture of that for you

Then I'll start draining the lathe so I can work on the gaskets. I'll take lots of pictures so you'll know exactly what to do when you replace your bearings! (Not that it's particularly difficult)

Thanks

[Phil WhitleyParticipant @philwhitley94135]

Have you linked the blue wire to the terminal above in the limit switch! See the diagram I did for you.

Phil

[Richard Kirkman 1Participant @richardkirkman1]

The blue yellow and red are all connected to the limit switch in the same locations as your lathe from the pictures you sent at the bottom of page 2 on this thread

[Phil WhitleyParticipant @philwhitley94135]

Yes, that is correct, but you also need a link wire from the blue wire terminal to the spare terminal on the switch, which is not visible in the pic. I have checked the wiring diagram, and it does show it. but it is not obvious on the pics. Look on the diagram in your manual.

Phil

Edited By Phil Whitley on 24/03/2020 14:44:39

[Richard Kirkman 1Participant @richardkirkman1]

I still need to connect all the blue yellow and red wires into the contactor? I'm not sure where they need to go, but looking at your diagram made a bit more sense

Or are you saying I need to connect the blue for the holding in switch elsewhere?

I'll get the pictures soon, just finishing some coursework

[Richard Kirkman 1Participant @richardkirkman1]

Picture on the side of the contactor

Then my electrician friend put two brown wires into the contactor, I don't really know why, but I'm sure there was a reason for it

Now, As far as i understand, then from the diagram you drew for me, the yellow needs to go into L3, the blue into the holding in thing at the bottom, then the red into the top one?

[Phil WhitleyParticipant @philwhitley94135]

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the contactor appears (from the blue label) to have a 240v coil in it, you need to change this for a 400-415v coil I also need a few good pics of the overload connections, but it will wait till you finish ter Uni stuff!

Phil

[EmgeeParticipant @emgee]

Could just run a neutral with the power supply and use 240v control.

Emgee

[Richard Kirkman 1Participant @richardkirkman1]

This is the contactor that I bought

**LINK**

Yes, it does seem to be 240v, but it says somewhere about 440v being used? Can it be made to work or am I better off ordering a 440v one like this

**LINK**

As if so, I need to order it quickly since who knows how long the royal mail is going to keep going

Sorry about the faff, It shouldn't be too much of a problem. I might still be able to take it back

Just as I'd got the wires in too. Just my luck

[Phil WhitleyParticipant @philwhitley94135]

You could use a neutral, but better to get a 440v coil!

Phil, I am back in about an hour!

[Johnboy25Participant @johnboy25]

Is your lathe single phase or 3 phase? Could you send a photo of the motor info plate?
John

[Johnboy25Participant @johnboy25]

Sorry – didn’t see your latest post before hitting ‘send’ button. It’s 3 phase and if you’re in the uk or Europe, it will be 400V.

As Phil said – you could use 230v if you’re got a Neutral on hand in the control box or where it’s fed from but that will need a bit of modification to the wiring.
Again as Phil implied it would be easier to get a 400/440V coil or change the contactor out for a 400V version.

John

P.S. Don’t use it as it is – you’ll burn the coil out. 😳

P.P.S. Chana are Telemecanique knock off’s.

Edited By Johnboy25 on 24/03/2020 17:47:00

Edited By Johnboy25 on 24/03/2020 17:52:01

[Richard Kirkman 1Participant @richardkirkman1]

Thanks, Phil and John

Just ordered a 400V one, the one I linked earlier, should be here on Thursday. I'll take the old one out then. Will the wiring be the same as it currently is?

Meanwhile, I've been looking at wiring for the lighting transformer, which seems to be pretty straightforward, but I'll post some pictures in case there's something I can't see is wrong.

[Phil WhitleyParticipant @philwhitley94135]

Hi Again Richard,

You have ordered a new contactor, good! you can use the existing overload portion, as you probably know, just remove it from the old contactor, and fit to the new one. On the overload, there should be a pair of normally closed connections which is the switch that breaks the holding in circuit if the current becomes to high, probably marked NC with a switch symbol between them. It is pointless to assume that the new contactor will be the same wiring as the old one, so post up a pic when it arrives, and we will do the wiring diagram then.

Good progress, we will get there.

Stay healthy

Phil

[Phil WhitleyParticipant @philwhitley94135]

AAAAAAARGH!!! have you connected the lighting unit to the two slidelock fuses? They will be 415 v or thereabouts! it will evaporate as soon as you put power to it! I assume that the lighting transformer is a 240v led power supply. Remeber that each line of the 3 phase supply is 240v, but between any two lines , due to them being 120 degrees out of phase, there is 415 or thereabouts. You would need (once again) to put a neutral into the machine which means using a 5 pin plug and socket instead of four, and 5 core cable as well. I would mount the transformer externally, plugged into a 13A socket, feed the low voltage into the machine, and use the switch you have fitted to the control panel to switch the output from the transformer to the light fitting.. The transformer originally fitted to these machines had a 415v primary, and 12 and 24v outputs, and some I think were 48V as well.

Lets not have any big bangs eh!

Phil.

[Richard Kirkman 1Participant @richardkirkman1]

Thanks, this is exactly why I'm showing it

I still don't want to put an extra plug on, I want it all to run from one cable. But I don't want to put in a neutral in either. Surely this worked once before, so the component must exist. So, where would I be able to get a 415v to 12v transformer?

**LINK** This maybe? A bit expensive

I've made a nice block for the switch to mount to, which is starting to look the part, a few more holes and it'll fit

Didn't get to start on the gaskets, but tomorrow is a new day!

Obviously the transformer won't be used anymore, but I took the pictures before I saw the message

[Phil WhitleyParticipant @philwhitley94135]

Yes, that transformer would work, but it outputs 12v AC, and you would need DC for an LED, so you would need to convert, to DC, or use some other light source. I always look for the simplest solution! Will see if I can turn anything up.

Phil.

[Phil WhitleyParticipant @philwhitley94135]

Maybe this, link

And feed the output to your existing led transformer. Drop an email to RS just to check that it will suit your use, but it looks good to me. Masses of transformers used on ebay!

Phil

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