Chester or Warco.

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

"Buying second-hand screws British makers just as effectively as foreigners." Dave

Well thats true up to a point but maybe the situation is a little more complex.

If I have understood the history of Myford reasonably accurately, the longevity of the company was supported in the main by spares sales which would not have been possible without the vast number of Seven series lathes in existance both in the UK and around the world. The fact that they were so well made, suitable for a specific market and desireable (a fact enhanced in some no small way by the Model Engineering press) ensured an enduring product. I suspect that without this spares base the current Myford (Mytholmroyd) company would have been a non starter economically.

It will be interesting to see if there emerges a "standard" lathe or mill from the far eastern stable.

regards Martin

[DeanoParticipant @deano]

All valid points, but not the subject of the thread. We can talk around the issue all day and bring motorbikes, hoovers and Myford lathes into it. The post was Warco or Chester. The overwhelming majority were against Chester. Not because their products are Chinese. Warco’s products are Chinese and generally get a good write up. The problems identified were that Chester have sent sub standard quality to several customers. Why this fact is being skirted around is beyond me. I would reiterate the advice to the thread originator. Buy whatever vacuum cleaner or motorbike you want. Ignore those who clearly have something to protect. Avoid Chester like a dose of the pox.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Hopper on 22/11/2017 09:53:26:

When are we going to see the Honda Four of lathes?

I suspect it may be the SC4, at least if they could halve the minimum speed to 50rpm.

Neil

[Dan CarterParticipant @dancarter89683]

In the interests of balance, my first warco lathe was faulty in a way that suggested poor quality control, just like my first Chester mill. And my after sales was similar too. Furthermore, neither of these incidents bothered me much as I had low expectations to match the low prices. If everyone was really prepared to pay more for higher quality, then a supplier would start servicing that market, but we aren’t. Those who don’t want a mediocre quality machine should stick to the new boxfords and the allegedly freely available cheap, perfect condition second hand Colchesters and stop moaning about products that aren’t aimed at them

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by Rockets on 22/11/2017 12:26:06:
The post was Warco or Chester. The overwhelming majority were against Chester. Not because their products are Chinese

Interested to know how you arrive at the "overwhelming majority"

A quick look back through the thread shows 6 posters happy or better with their Chester machines, 2 unhappy and one inbetween I don't see that as any sort of majority. Warco get 7 happy bunnies. I have not included those that have multiple machines if I did then the unhappy would be an even smaller minority.

One would almost think you have an axe to grind about suppliers as all your posts are just that!

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Rockets on 22/11/2017 11:02:07:
Again, no one is saying Chinese products are all junk. However, a large group of people on this forum are saying that they have been sold junk by Chester. They are saying that they did not get the quality they had come to expect for the price from Chester. The dancing around this fact is rather blatant. Face the facts. Many readers or forum users feel that they did not get what they paid for from one of ME/MEW's major advertisers, namely Chester. Let's just embrace this fact and put the consumers of these magazines before the advertisers.

The majority of criticisms of Chester are you and your brother's posts – the saga of an ex-demo milling machine that wasn't pristine and was returned and the Model B that has been described in various ways from acceptable to awful.

Yes there are other comments about Chester, but after quite a while searching through the forum they seem to be outbalanced by satisfied customers, and those with problems always make more noise than satisfied customers.

It's clear you have an axe to grind with Chester, at least be honest that the problems you and your brother are reporting are about the same pair of machines.

You have expressed you views about them repeatedly and have not been censored or edited. I think it's time to move on and leave space for others to express their views, one way or another.

Neil

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

I was beginning to wonder if those members had different internet locations…. or if both were the same…..

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

You can see any member's posting history by clicking the number of posts under their name.

Neil

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 22/11/2017 13:12:18:

Posted by Hopper on 22/11/2017 09:53:26:

When are we going to see the Honda Four of lathes?

I suspect it may be the SC4, at least if they could halve the minimum speed to 50rpm.

Neil

Even 50rpm is less than one a second. Lower than that really is the province of the mandrel handle. It's about time small lathes came with one as it is more useful than a travelling steady most of the time.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Bazyle on 22/11/2017 13:57:11:

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 22/11/2017 13:12:18:

Posted by Hopper on 22/11/2017 09:53:26:

When are we going to see the Honda Four of lathes?

I suspect it may be the SC4, at least if they could halve the minimum speed to 50rpm.

Neil

Even 50rpm is less than one a second. Lower than that really is the province of the mandrel handle. It's about time small lathes came with one as it is more useful than a travelling steady most of the time.

I think the SC4 designers assumed it would chiefly be used with carbide tooling. 100rpm is a bit fast for HSS getting near the 200mm capacity.

Mandrel handles are good for screwcutting though.

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 22/11/2017 14:32:29:

Posted by Bazyle on 22/11/2017 13:57:11:

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 22/11/2017 13:12:18:

Posted by Hopper on 22/11/2017 09:53:26:

When are we going to see the Honda Four of lathes?

I suspect it may be the SC4, at least if they could halve the minimum speed to 50rpm.

Neil

Even 50rpm is less than one a second. Lower than that really is the province of the mandrel handle. It's about time small lathes came with one as it is more useful than a travelling steady most of the time.

I think the SC4 designers assumed it would chiefly be used with carbide tooling. 100rpm is a bit fast for HSS getting near the 200mm capacity.

Mandrel handles are good for screwcutting though.

Is that a wind up?

:0)

[John MCParticipant @johnmc39344]

An interesting thread, I wonder if the OP has been put off far eastern machinery yet? My advice would be to go for "ex-industrial" machinery, there is some good stuff out there in good condition and at the right price, needs some patience waiting for it to become available though. This approach has worked well for me, what I'm equiped with will see me out!

I have bought far eastern manufactured machinery, a 13mm capacity drilling machine, motor burnt out, my fault. I replaced the 1/3rd hp motor with a UK made 1/4hp motor, gave good service for a few years then sold.

An 8" bench grinder, an "Alpine" from Grahams in 1986, still going strong. (What happened to Grahams?).

For a laboratory I worked in a lathe, 5" centre height, a green one from a well known supplier. It took an apprentice a morning to clean the preservative off it, then only to find the saddle would not move along the detachable gap piece! Quite a step there, clearly the wrong gap piece. I phoned the supplier who was very abrupt with me (I think I was being reasonable). The phone call ended badly with me ready to call the businesses legal department. 10 minutes later a phone call from the supplier, very apologetic. Within a few days the machine was replaced. I suspect with one that had been properly inspected,. With a QC toolpost by way of an apology for their initial rudeness, cant complain at that.

I bought a mill/drill from "LS machine tools" (long gone I think) in Leicester. Once I had sorted out the lower bearing on the spindle. The clamping ring would come undone, the machine then gave me 15 years of good service. I sold it to someone who got another 6 years service before he retired to the great workshop in the sky!

I dont think I have met anyone who has had trouble free service from far eastern manufactured machinery. Sometimes sorted with a quick adjustment through to "it went back to the supplier" problem. Hence my advice to buy ex-industrial.

John

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

As usual, coming in late to the discussion.

Limpet : Have you looked at Arc Euro for brushes?

First lathe was a second (at least) hand Myford ML7 Before too long needed a new Secondary belt, and then countershaft and bushes, and nut for the Cross slide. Using a Rodney milling attachment convinced me that it was not rigid enough for my use.

Warco vs Chester

Bought a RF25 (Economy) Mill/Drill from Warco. Primary belt shreddeed within six months. Motor was out of line. Replacement, with motor aligned , still going strong at least 15 years later.

Bought a small bandsaw from Warco. It cost me near £100 in blades before return. The replacement (Asked for checkover before despatch) obviously wasn't as the main casting had a crack with paint in it.

Sent it back for the larger 4.5 inch model. Out of warranty, that sent the thin steel bearing spacer through the lower bearing and seal. Replaced both bearings and seal, with a hefty brass spacer. No more problems in that area.

Wanted to buy an Imperial BH600, without stand. No quote was forthcoming, so bought a BL12-24 from the now defunct Engineers Tool Room, (VFD fitted for free when ordered). Reg Pugh even helped place it on the bench.

Tumbler gears slack and noisy: replaced immediately, and with new axles, without query. Halogen lamp ate bulbs; with improved ventilation, cannot remember last bulb failure. Only problems have been caused by my stupidity.

Design problem of placing a ball oiler behind handwheel where it was inaccessible. Relocated by self.

Spoke to Warco about possibility of obtaining ball oilers. Six arrived, FOC by post a day or two later!.

Have a secondhand Chester Super Conquest, only complaints: No means of lubricating the leadscrew bearings (Rectified by drilling and fitting ball oilers when making and fitting a graduated leadscrew handwheel.

Tailstock was off centreline. Did not look as if previous owner had moved it. No great problem in realigning it.

Those are my experiences of Far Eastern machines. Obviously with many years in Quality Engineering am not happy about the problems, but I got what I paid for. A Rolls Royce costs a lot more than Dacia, so you expect no, or fewer problems and maladjustments..

If there are problems, the after sales and service support is the vital factor, which is what my former employers tried, and still do, to provide.

An Industrial machine will be built and assembled with a view to providing reliable, durable, precise work over a long hard life, and will cost accordingly.

Hobby machines are designed and built for light duty; and the materials, life and quality will be reflected in the price.

Who expects to win the Tour de France on a bike bought from a supermarket?

Howard

[David Standing 1Participant @davidstanding1]

Posted by Howard Lewis on 22/11/2017 16:30:14:

Who expects to win the Tour de France on a bike bought from a supermarket?

Howard

Good chance if it is Decathlon

[Raymond AndersonParticipant @raymondanderson34407]

Here is the 16 year old GH750 Still accurate to this day Checked usually every year and last check at the tail end of last year was 14 microns over approx. 275mm [ chuck only for support no tailstock used ]. I also think that although it looks in a mess [ cosmetically] all the important areas are well maintained, 3 gear boxes always with Castrol, Coolant Castrol Hysol and slideway lubrication is Castrol Magnaglide. I really do think that a lot of problems with the Chinese machines is "user generated " ie lack of maintenance, like anything else maintenance is the order of the day. The lathe has seen a helluva lot of use in the 16 or so years.

Whether [ as Micheal G was wondering ] the new versions are as good or reliable I cannot say. Also cannot comment on customer service from Warco as I've never needed any. [ I think that says it all ]

Pic also of the Eurotherm 650 drive which has also performed without a murmur. The 2005 Chester Lux and WEG CFW 08 Drive are in an album.

[DeanoParticipant @deano]

Definitely different people living at different ends of the country, and hardly voices crying in the wilderness if you count how many people have tales of woe regarding this particular outfit. I have no axe to grind with them though, I was refunded. Someone wondered what Westbury would have thought of all of this. I have a good number of issues from his era, they are fantastic, I’m always learning from them. That was when ME WAS it’s readers. I can’t imagine him sitting on the fence whilst his readers potentially bought iffy products, just because he wanted to keep a full page as spread. That’s where my axe lies. I imagine the blessed man has engaged backgears and is slowly revolving as we speak.

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

Howard

…Spoke to Warco about possibility of obtaining ball oilers. Six arrived, FOC by post a day or two later!…

​You wouldn't happen to recall what size ball oilers you got from Warco, I have need to replace a couple on my 250V-F, or does anyone else have the info' b4 I go a hunting…?

​TIA

George.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Have you looked in the manual they usually give the dia there, do for my 280.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Rockets on 22/11/2017 17:07:10:
Definitely different people living at different ends of the country, and hardly voices crying in the wilderness if you count how many people have tales of woe regarding this particular outfit. I have no axe to grind with them though, I was refunded. Someone wondered what Westbury would have thought of all of this. I have a good number of issues from his era, they are fantastic, I'm always learning from them. That was when ME WAS it's readers. I can't imagine him sitting on the fence whilst his readers potentially bought iffy products, just because he wanted to keep a full page as spread. That's where my axe lies. I imagine the blessed man has engaged backgears and is slowly revolving as we speak.

Why not say what you think more plainly?

It seems you are accusing me of defending Chester simply because they advertise with us.

As a site moderator I have a duty to enforce the T&Cs, and the repeated postings about Chester risk infringing the 'defamatory' rule. It's getting well past reasonable comment – If you have no axe to grind, why not click on the '18 forum posts' under your name and decide for yourself how many of your posts are criticisms of suppliers (Chester in particular) and how many are constructive contributions to the forum.

For clarity 11 out of 18 are either critical of Chester or part of threads where you were expressing criticism of Chester. Nearly all the balance are comments about Arc Euro Trade or complains about posts being removed when actually they were awaiting moderation.

It's hard to not to conclude you use this forum solely with the intent of putting the boot into suppliers you have a beef with.

Neil

 

 

Edited By Neil Wyatt on 22/11/2017 18:39:02

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by Rockets on 22/11/2017 17:07:10:
Definitely different people living at different ends of the country,

Look very closely at the ARC thread that will come up in those 18 posts where you say Carl IS your brother and you both have a very similar post code!

Edited By JasonB on 22/11/2017 18:45:17

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, well I have bought three machines from Chester, first one was in 1997, which is a Champion Mill/Drill. Apart from the normal kind of adjustments you might expect from this price range, I have no issues to report and it is still in use. The second machine is a Cobra mill, which Chester sold me off their display stand at the Midlands exhibition in 2012, again, a few adjustments had to be made, but no issues to report and it is still in use. The third machine is a Conquest lathe that I bought in 2015 again at the Midlands show and this was delivered on time. A few adjustments were also needed, but again I have no issues to report. They all do what I expect them to do. None of them are used much outside of their design envelope. I did push the Cobra mill a little bit once and required a new gear wheel for the motor, but I hasten to say that the wheel failed as it was designed to do when overloaded, a new wheel was fitted and the mill has worked as good as always since.

I do have a Warco 220 lathe, which I bought second hand and to be honest, I wouldn't say the quality was any better or worse than my Chester machines, given it was also aimed at the hobby market, and as far as I am aware, the previous owner had no issues with it. I did buy a vice from Warco, which was very poorly made, I should have returned it, but left it too late to complain, but have been very happy with other stuff from them as is the case from Arc and Chester.

Regards Nick.

[OldironParticipant @oldiron]

I have a Chester Conquest mill and have used it constantly for over 2 years. It has done some pretty serious milling for a small machine. I use mainly carbide indexable tooling on it. including a 5 tip 60mm face mill. Never has it given me any doubt as to its reliability. I modified the plastic gears to a belt drive which made it a little quieter. Added a reversing switch to aid threading. Added a DRO to aid my accuracy oh and a tacho and table drive. OK so its not the stiffest or heaviest of machines but will certainly do all I needed it to do. I have a bigger heavier Ajax mill to do the larger items now but still use it for something several times a week.

regards

Edited By Oldiron on 22/11/2017 21:06:03

[DeanoParticipant @deano]

If that’s how you feel it’s entirely up to you. I have an OX10 postcode. My brother Carl has an IV36 postcode. If you want to meet me to check, just let me know.

[Ian Skeldon 2Participant @ianskeldon2]

Mods how do I ignore posts from Rockets, he's getting on my tits now.

[David Standing 1Participant @davidstanding1]

Posted by Ian Skeldon 2 on 22/11/2017 22:19:57:

Mods how do I ignore posts from Rockets, he's getting on my tits now.

 

Click on the 'ignore member' icon 20mm below the text in his last post!

Edited By David Standing 1 on 22/11/2017 22:30:05

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