Cheap alternative to replacement Record hardened jaw plates?

[Adam HarrisParticipant @adamharris13683]

I need to replace the jaw plates on a Record 23 and balk at the circa £40 OEM price. Would like proper hardened jaws – is there a non-Record equivalent that will fit and save my pocket?

[Adam HarrisParticipant @adamharris13683]

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

When I was a schoolboy I found a 5" vice in a ditch at the end of our village, I managed to get it home on the rack of my bicycle. It had no jaws but I managed to unscrew the sheared off jaw screws and made some mild steel replacements in metalwork at school, Mr Pagan the metalwork master charged me 6p for material. The jaws lasted about 15 years before I replaced the vice, although they took a lot of punishment they could be tidied up with a file now and again. Only occasionally when using some heavy duty persuasion did I wish I had hard jaws with grip pattern, now I have a vice with hard grip jaws I find I use soft jaws much of the time. On your quest for alternative jaws maybe Faithfull brand would fit? if someone could measure the screw centers and size or if you post the centers and size of the record 23.

Mike

[VicParticipant @vic]

You could make some from Gauge plate and then harden them.

[Adam HarrisParticipant @adamharris13683]

Michael i was thinking the same thing in that I have a smaller Record which I almost always use with aluminium covers as I always worry the hardened grip jaws underneath are liable to damage the work piece surface. Maybe I should indeed just file the existing mild steel jaws smooth again. It is nice to get another's opinion to jog one into action. Thanks.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I keep meaning to get around to replace the hard jaws on my Record with softer ones…

Neil

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

I also have an old vice, I made jaws from bright bar and they are still in use, after about 20 years. The newer vice with hard serrated jaws spends most of the time with a couple of bits of angle in the jaws.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 07/06/2015 11:04:41:

I keep meaning to get around to replace the hard jaws on my Record with softer ones…

.

Sell hm to Adam for twenty Quid, and it's Win-Win

MichaelG.

[Old SchoolParticipant @oldschool]

My father was a clockmaker and his record vice had smooth case hardened mild steel jaws, I have this vice and certainly don't miss the serrations of conventional vice jaws and for most jobs you don't need soft jaws and when you do cardboard is usually adequate.

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

Gauge plate is hard enough without actually hardening it. My milling vice is also fitted with such plates with a narrow step for holding shallow items.

[VicParticipant @vic]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 07/06/2015 11:04:41:

I keep meaning to get around to replace the hard jaws on my Record with softer ones…

Neil

I made some from Aluminium alloy but they are easily damaged. I think next time I'll use mild steel.

The worse thing for many folks are the teeth on the original Record ones.

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

I remember that Mr Pagan as mentioned above had the jaws of the Record vices in the school metal shop, surface ground smooth as the sort of work done in school did not demand grip jaws and made the pupils lives easier not having to deal with soft jaws all the time. I have often thought Record are missing a trick by not countersinking both side of the jaws so one side have grips and the other is smooth, a few minutes work to swap to grips when they are really needed.

Mike

[DustyParticipant @dusty]

You will find that in most toolrooms well certainly in my day, the bench vices had the hard jaws removed and good old mild steel jaws fitted, O.K. they had been surface ground and every few months you would re-grind them. It is, I suppose dependent on what you are using the vice for. The other trick is to make a set of soft jaws from 16g aluminium which like fibre jaws just pop over the existing jaws, when they get mangaled,as they will,replace them. If you are making a set of mild steel jaws, make them 2" longer at one end, you will be amazed how usefull that can be.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

If you want to get seroius about vice jaws have a ook at post #10 on this thread. The contributor is a Brit so wonder if he is on here.

I have disposable wood jaws for 99% of work held on with rubber bands. The wood deforms around roundish things and threads sink in so are not damaged. Can misstreat as much as required and they are still good for firelighting. When slipped down a little the hard jaw tops are exposed so still provide the limitting surface if needed for filing to a line as done for crossing out clock wheels.

[speelwerkParticipant @speelwerk]

Posted by Michael Poole on 07/06/2015 16:35:41:

I have often thought Record are missing a trick by not countersinking both side of the jaws so one side have grips and the other is smooth, a few minutes work to swap to grips when they are really needed.

Mike

This is not cheap **LINK** but gauge plate not hardened works fine, it does not damage the file you are using. Niko.

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

Niko, one day I will think of an idea that someone hasn't already thought of.

Mike

[DustyParticipant @dusty]

Bazyle

Just had a look at those vice jaws, shows good skill. I suspect he was taught by a toolmaker as each part has a toolmakers chamfer on them.

[Jesse Hancock 1Participant @jessehancock1]

Niko, one day I will think of an idea that someone hasn't already thought of.

Michael Poole : you me and everyone else on here. I never cease to be amazed when reading old books and mags just how much I think I have discovered only to find it's already been done, put on a shelf, dusted and forgotten.

Marketing is the way to go. Think vacuum ads on the box/slab. Nothings changed since it was invented, not even the patter. Refined perhaps but still the same and yet from the add you would think it was something new.

Edited By Jesse Hancock 1 on 08/06/2015 09:22:03

[Bob YouldonParticipant @bobyouldon45599]

Good morning folks,

I suppose at first £40 seems a lot, but when you consider todays price for the vice its probably in the right area, but considering the manufacturing costs etc and if you set out to make replacements charging your time and materials at a not unreasonable rate you'd have to complete the task in little over an hour, It'll take me that time to find the material in my workshop, let alone the hardening and tempering of the repacements!

I've had the same Record number 3 vice for more than fifty years and have always used sacrificial soft vice clams having never had the need for those hardened serrated jaws. I was taught in my school metal work class to use soft clams to protect the work. I make my clams from off cuts of ordinary plumbing grade 22mm copper tube that would normally go into the scrap and when they are finally only suitable for the bin, into the copper scrap they go so nothing is wasted.

Regards,

Bob

[VicParticipant @vic]

Copper sounds like a good idea Bob, I'll have to try that! Now, where's my plumbing box …

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

I hate loose jaws with a vengeance, you must spend more time fitting them and picking them up off the floor than making a new set.

Gauge plate works very well unhardened, same for packings because if you hit the jaw at any time at least it doesn't cost you a cutter or new hacksaw blade.

OK they do get dinged but a quick lick up on the surface grinder and you are good to go again. I do have a set of alloy ones and brass ones but hardly ever fit them.

[frank brownParticipant @frankbrown22225]

John, I have got some manufactured soft jaws, they are some sort of red fibre in a tinplate holder that almost clips to the jaws of my Record No.23 . Sort of like a good idea totally wrecked by cost cutting.

Frank ( Donater of a queer little milling cutter at Harrogate)

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by frank brown on 08/06/2015 19:57:30:

John, I have got some manufactured soft jaws, they are some sort of red fibre in a tinplate holder that almost clips to the jaws of my Record No.23 . Sort of like a good idea totally wrecked by cost cutting.

Frank ( Donater of a queer little milling cutter at Harrogate)

I have nice ones in aluminium extrusions with magnets to hold them in place – an idea that works very well.

Unfortunately one went under a bench and I can't find it

Neil

[Jesse Hancock 1Participant @jessehancock1]

That'll be the borrowers then Neil. Or suspect magnets???

Edited By Jesse Hancock 1 on 08/06/2015 22:25:02

[Neil LickfoldParticipant @neillickfold44316]

I replaced the Hard jaws on my Vice at work 16 years ago. I made them from 2 offcuts of electrical copper plate about 16mm thick. Still there and have lasted surprisingly well. They really should be taken out and refaced.They hold work pieces very well and so far have never damaged anything from holding it in the vice. 3 others have since switched to the copper jaws when the copper was available.

Neil

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