Can you recommend a UK supplier for good quality “mill board”?

[John Smith 47Participant @johnsmith47]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 15/06/2021 20:22:26:

Posted by John Smith 47 on 15/06/2021 20:07:04:

Posted by Trumpet / Flugel on 15/06/2021 15:39:02:

Hi John. Have you tried a Google search using "Millboard for bookbinding? This may offer you some options.

HTH

Peter.

Hmmm you may possibly be onto something…

However, yes, I did search for similar things! Certainly if you search for that exact phrase "Millboard for bookbinding" you only get 2 results!

[…]

.

One of which was this: **LINK**

https://ia600300.us.archive.org/21/items/conservationofbo013069mbp/conservationofbo013069mbp.pdf

Although published in 1957 … it’s interesting and informative

My thanks to both of you

MichaelG.

I rather like the sound of "Rope Board" – probably incredibly strong, even if will eventually deteriorate faster than "Straw Board"!

It sounds like you can in principle at least, make a board from almost any type of fibrous biological material. But what I want to know is what are the strongest 1300-1400 micron thick boards that are commercially available at a reasonable price! I don't particularly need something that is "acid free" and which will last for 100+ years.

[ZebethyalParticipant @zebethyal]

Just a thought – have you considered Dibond or one of its off-brand alternatives? very strong (used for shop front signage) even thickness of 3mm, 0.15mm aluminium skins on both sides one of which also has a coloured wipe clean coating, around £30.00 for an 8'x4' sheet, could be machined for the thinner areas of your design.

I used it for the skins of my laser cutter and also recently made a box from the offcuts for housing the electronics of my World of Ward Division Controller.

[John Smith 47Participant @johnsmith47]

Posted by Zebethyal on 16/06/2021 13:49:49:

Just a thought – have you considered Dibond or one of its off-brand alternatives? very strong (used for shop front signage) even thickness of 3mm, 0.15mm aluminium skins on both sides one of which also has a coloured wipe clean coating, around £30.00 for an 8'x4' sheet, could be machined for the thinner areas of your design.

I used it for the skins of my laser cutter and also recently made a box from the offcuts for housing the electronics of my World of Ward Division Controller.

[Drat I just lost my reply!]

Yes, Dibond does look like an interesting material. I do quite like the idea of a composite. They even claim that it is "recyclable" but it's surely nothing like as eco-friendly as a biologically derived/degradable material like greyboard/millboard.

However as a product that could potentially be used in mass production I think it would be rather expensive both to buy, (your prices work at c. £10/metre), but also machining it would be a bit tricky.

Millboard can be cut quite easily either by dragging a blade across it or by a long blade mounted in a die… but I don't think that that would work for Dibond.

Also with Millboard myr plan would be to cover it both sides with a layer of paper/book cloth or eco-friendly plastic film, probably using a hot-melt glue… and then to use the protective cover layers as a hinging material. With Dibond it would seem like a waste of the wipe-clean finish… so we would need to find a different way to create a hinge. …But I am very much at the limits of my manufacturing knowledge!

Furthermore, one would need to find a way to 'finish' the edges of the sidewalls/small panels of Dibond so that the user doesn't cut themselves on it.

Finally with my current design I require 2 layers of material (of c.1.3mm – 1.4mm thickness) so that our low-profile embedded closure devices will have something to grasp… and I from what I can see you can't get Dibond that thin. And if we just use a

Conclusion
So Dibond opens up something of a can of worms! I suppose if it was vastly cheaper one could simply wrap it…

…but for now I think I need to stick with some kind of "mill board" / stronger "grey board".
 

Edited By John Smith 47 on 18/06/2021 13:46:28

[Jonathon BywaterParticipant @jonathonbywater45041]

Bookbinding suppliers probably still sell it. Try Hewits.

[John Smith 47Participant @johnsmith47]

Nice try, but J Hewitt & Sons offer nothing between 1.0mm and 1.5mm.
https://www.hewitonline.com/Millboard_p/pp-311-000.htm
Whereas to recap, I need anywhere between 1.3 and 1.4mm (inclusive)

I don't necessarily need it to be either "acid-free" or "lead-free".
(ASIDE: But why would anyone make millboard that actually contains lead? Is that something that can get deliberately added? If so WTF?!)

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by John Smith 47 on 18/06/2021 23:54:32:

[…]
I don't necessarily need it to be either "acid-free" or "lead-free".
(ASIDE: But why would anyone make millboard that actually contains lead? Is that something that can get deliberately added? If so WTF?!)

.

I guess you still have not read the Def Stan

Some use-cases need the board to be Lead-Free

There is a risk of Lead being a contaminant of ‘waste paper’

Therefore some millboard is tested and certified to be Lead-Free

MichaelG.

.

As you have already used a crude ‘initialism’ … let me add RTFM

[John Smith 47Participant @johnsmith47]

@Michael Gilligan

> I guess you still have not read the Def Stan

Confused do you mean this?
Er the UK Military Defence standards – really?
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/uk-defence-standardization
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/defence-standards-def-stan-970-amendments

J

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Also not unknown for lead shot or bullet to be embedded in a tree trunk so even your virgin material may not be pure.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by John Smith 47 on 24/06/2021 11:04:53:

@Michael Gilligan

> I guess you still have not read the Def Stan

Confused do you mean this?
[…]

.

I gave you a link to the relevant document, John

[at least a free copy of the previous issue]

… I have no further interest in the matter.

MichaelG.

[John Smith 47Participant @johnsmith47]

@Michael – but why might UK Military Defence standards be relevant? I am not, no will I ever develop anything for the defence industry.

Also I don't care about lead being present or absent in (presumably) small quantities.

@Zebethyal – I have got confirmation that DiBond even when ordered in bulk costs about £24.80 per square metre. That might make sense for a sign, but I don't think it makes sense for manufacturing a c. A4-sized box as a consumer product.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by John Smith 47 on 24/06/2021 11:54:10:

@Michael – but why might UK Military Defence standards be relevant? I am not, no will I ever develop anything for the defence industry.

Also I don't care about lead being present or absent in (presumably) small quantities.

.

Because your previously named supplier apparently claims that is the grade of ‘millboard that they sell.

Perhaps you would want to be an “intelligent customer” and ask them some questions.

… but as you haven’t looked at the document, perhaps you don’t realise there may be questions to ask.

MichaelG.

[John Smith 47Participant @johnsmith47]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 24/06/2021 12:30:38:

Posted by John Smith 47 on 24/06/2021 11:54:10:

@Michael – but why might UK Military Defence standards be relevant? I am not, no will I ever develop anything for the defence industry.

Also I don't care about lead being present or absent in (presumably) small quantities.

.

Because your previously named supplier apparently claims that is the grade of ‘millboard that they sell.

Perhaps you would want to be an “intelligent customer” and ask them some questions.

… but as you haven’t looked at the document, perhaps you don’t realise there may be questions to ask.

MichaelG.

To get clear, in the absence of being able to find any other suppliers of c. 1300 micron mill board, given that they have now relented on their MOV, I have now bought some more of their mill board.

Structurally it seems to be fine for now, and good enough for my model-making.

I am not looking for archive quality board nor will it have any contact with food, so if it has a little lead in it I guess that's fine.

FYI, I have been experimenting with a picture framer who has a high-end Swiss board cutting machine (GUNNAR AiOX computerized digital cutter) and the board I am using right at the limit of what can be cut by dragging a blade across it. In my application, the blades only last for slicing up maybe half a board, i.e. maybe 1 to 3 minutes of cutting time, but the boards cost £4.50 and the blades cost only £0.75, so whilst inconvenient it the issue isn't a deal breaker.

Anyhow the net result is that I now have a couple of boxes-worth of card all nicely sliced up. Cutting accuracy turns out to be remarkably hard even for what is obviously a pretty sophisticated device. With quite of lot of experimentation we are getting an accuracy of about 0.5mm. I suspect part of the problem is that the blades themselves are bending slightly whilst the cutting is under way.

The blades move pretty fast – I'm guessing 1 metre per second (see video above). The card is held down buy a cutting mat that has microscopic holes in it through which are is sucked pretty hard. Also there are little clamps at the edge of the board that can be used to hold the board in place. Overall it's pretty impressive technology, and the cuts are highly repeatable, if one can just get it to cut exactly where one wants…!

J

Edited By John Smith 47 on 24/06/2021 23:07:52

Edited By John Smith 47 on 24/06/2021 23:08:37

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

Posted by John Smith 47 on 24/06/2021 23:02:56:

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 24/06/2021 12:30:38:

Posted by John Smith 47 on 24/06/2021 11:54:10:

@Michael – but why might UK Military Defence standards be relevant? I am not, no will I ever develop anything for the defence industry.

Also I don't care about lead being present or absent in (presumably) small quantities.

.

Because your previously named supplier apparently claims that is the grade of ‘millboard that they sell.

Perhaps you would want to be an “intelligent customer” and ask them some questions.

… but as you haven’t looked at the document, perhaps you don’t realise there may be questions to ask.

MichaelG.

I am not looking for archive quality board nor will it have any contact with food, so if it has a little lead in it I guess that's fine.

J

At least until you want to sell to someone who's standards exclude lead, but then you only guess so that's fine.

[Author]

Posts