Can you recommend a small chuck for centre drills?

[James Jenkins 1Participant @jamesjenkins1]

Hi all,

None of the chucks I have (all of which came with the lathes/pillar drill) are any good. However, I am not too worried as I have decided to buy machine drills, with MT shanks, as and when I need them, to be as accurate as possible and because I find them quick and convenient.

However, where this plan slightly falls down is with centre drills, which obviously need holding somehow. Can anyone recommend a good quality, small (I find many of my chucks way too big for the small MT1 tailstock of the Drummond – an certainly too big for centre drills) good quality chuck that I can use for them? In all likely hood I will just keep a centre drill in place, as a dedicate holder. Obviously it needs to be accurate, which I tend to find many aren't (mainly second hand ones), but doesn't need to be keyless.

I did think I could actually make a centre drill holder, using a tight fitting bore on a MT1 taper, with a retaining screw. Anyone tried anything similar?

Many thanks,

James

[James Jenkins 1Participant @jamesjenkins1]

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Albrecht.

[peak4Participant @peak4]

I've a couple of dedicated centre drill holders, made from blank MT2 arbours, with a cross axis grub screw.

Works fine for me. I drilled them slightly undersized, and then used the centre drill itself to finish to size.

For a small chuck; one of the ones I use came off an old cordless drill. It's keyless, but unlike many, it has a secondary locking collar. This means that when using it with a tap and turning the main lathe spindle anti-clockwise by hand, it doesn't loosen the grip of the tailstock chuck with the tap in it.

Bill

[EmgeeParticipant @emgee]

Hi James

I use an old MT drill cut down to the start of the taper and then drilled/reamed from the lathe chuck to suit the OD of a centre drill, the centre drill can be used for the final sizing of the bore, retain with Loctite or similar retaining fluid, apply heat to replace or turn around the centre drill.

Emgee

Peak4 beat me to it, also agree Albrecht are excellent but do use a Jacobs or other good brand of MT arbor or the accuracy of the chuck will be wasted.

Edited By Emgee on 29/06/2018 23:28:59

Edited By Emgee on 29/06/2018 23:31:43

[James Jenkins 1Participant @jamesjenkins1]

That's really helpful, thank you all. I think I will make one of those. An Albrecht is on my wish list, but one never seems to come up in good condition and a new one is really rather expensive!

James

[Douglas JohnstonParticipant @douglasjohnston98463]

When I bought my mill 20 years ago I splashed out and bought an Albrecht drill chuck with an integral R8 arbor which was on special offer at the time. Even on special offer the cost was considerable but every time I use it, even to this day, I get a surge of pleasure from the quality and accuracy of the tool. Money well spent.

Doug

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Despite being perfectly reasonable James' query raised a smile here this morning because it touched on an issue. Quite a few threads start with a question like:

Can anyone recommend a good quality, small … ?

And, after investigating recommendations, end up with the questioner bailing out because:

… a new one is really rather expensive!

Nothing wrong with lusting after nice tools and bargains, but considering the emphasis posters often place on 'quality' I'm surprised so few of us are prepared to pay for it. Why is that?

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 30/06/2018 09:31:26

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

If you can finds a Chinese made Golden Goose (easily identified by teh pelican logo…) 0-6mm chuck they are an absolute gem. Don't worry about them being Chinese.

Neil

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

I bought a very good Rohm brand (German) keyless chuck with an MT1 taper from Tracy Tools for not very much money. Very accurate and works a treat. It is the type of chuck often used on power tools, hammer drills etc, and REALLY grips the drill bit. I-ve used it to hold even a 1" drill with the end turned down to 3/8" and still it grips.

As an aside, I have given up using centre drills except when I specifically want to use a tailstock centre. For starting drilled holes without wandering, I have been using short stub drill or spot drills, about 3/16" or 1/4"diameter. Just enough to put a divot int he job. Much quicker than a centre drill and no faffing about babying that tiny little centre drill tip that so loves to snap off in the job.

[LambtonParticipant @lambton]

James,

+1 for dedicated centre drill holder.

My advice is to only use a centre drill when you actually need a centre hole for use with a locating or supporting centre. If you just want to start drilled hole always use a spotting drill as used on CNC machines. Spotting drills do not have the vulnerable small diameter pilot section present on a normal centre drill so they are much more robust.

Eric

[Chris Evans 6Participant @chrisevans6]

I have a 1/4" capacity chuck that has never been abused, for small centre drills. I only use it if the job requires a centre, all other spotting work is done with a "Spotting Drill" They last for years, are easily regrindable and are far better than using a centre drill. I was taught 55 years ago when I started my toolmaking apprenticeship to shorten the lead point of centre drills to prevent breakage. I still do it to this day.

[VicParticipant @vic]

Posted by Lambton on 30/06/2018 09:49:33:

James,

+1 for dedicated centre drill holder.

My advice is to only use a centre drill when you actually need a centre hole for use with a locating or supporting centre. If you just want to start drilled hole always use a spotting drill as used on CNC machines. Spotting drills do not have the vulnerable small diameter pilot section present on a normal centre drill so they are much more robust.

Eric

Yes agreed Eric. I brought this topic up about using spotting drills a while back. It was surprising though how many people hadn’t heard of them.

**LINK**

[James Jenkins 1Participant @jamesjenkins1]

Hi all,

This is all very helpful, thank you. I didn't know about them, but something like this seems to be ideal?:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dormer-HSS-Standard-Length-Spot-Drill-Metric-6mm-Cutting-Diameter-Standa/332693901297?hash=item4d761a0ff1:g:2osAAOSw3mFa-wO7

I suppose I could make a 1MT carrier for it, just in the same way.

I can see why my questions made Dave smile. To be honest I wasn't really thinking of a full on 1/2" or 3/8" keyless chuck for just holding a centre drill, just a small one that can be kept on. I bought a pricey second hand Albrecht chuck last year, when it came it had had it. Luckily the seller took it back. It's just a case of prioritising the funds you have available I suppose, at the moment by using taper bits I don't think I need one for general use.

I have bought a few dormer reamers and drills this week, for various jobs, all of them came through as described (mainly NOS), except one seller who had decided to make two of the three bits look new by running them over a motorised wire brush. They were so smooth they were like a Barabara Hepworth statues. Obviously it had absolutely ruined them – which given they were described as new is disappointing.

James

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

+1 for the Tracy Tools Rohm chuck with a 1 or 2 MT. Mine is very accurate and very inexpensive too! I have a fair amount of Jacobs and a few other Rohm chucks. All very fit for purpose.

Someone on here has got a down on Rohm chucks and must have got a bad one!

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

+1 for the above comments; but also take into consideration the drills especially those less than 3/16 – 4mm dia. There are quite often a lot of these have a bow in them which shows up as a 'wobble' when used & can lead to misinterpretation of 'inaccuracy' of the chuck. I have a couple of different chucks, mostly self tightening, from various retailers which have proved to be accurate to meet the needs required. I always suspect small drills ( especially those bought in packs of 10 ) & check them on my granite sink 'cut out' surface plate & those that are bowed are put to one side ( good enough for wood )

George.

[David George 1Participant @davidgeorge1]

For my M Type I fitted a blank end arbour from Chronos into the headstock taper and turned end to suit a 1/2 inch UNF thread key less chuck it runs perfect and then loctite in place. The arbours was only a few pounds and the chuck was a Rohm £15.00 from internet.

David

Edited By David George 1 on 30/06/2018 22:27:41

[VicParticipant @vic]

I’ve seen several 6 mm spotting drills on eBay for about a fiver so no need to spend more than that. In fact I bought a new 10 mm HSS Co one for not a lot more.

[JohnFParticipant @johnf59703]

James, plus 1 for Albrecht and most of my chucks are these or Johannsen but I needed a large capacity chuck 5/8" + so bought now from this range, very pleased with value for money, here's a link to the smaller ones with No1 morse taper – usual caveat no connection other than a customer

**LINK**

[VicParticipant @vic]

I’ve just thought James, what about one of these:

50AAOSwX9FZG~la”>https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ER20-Collet-Chuck-Holder-Straight-Tool-with-No-1-Morse-Taper-MT1-Shank-M6Thread/282481825848?hash=item41c53a9838:g50AAOSwX9FZG~la

A suitable collet is only another couple of quid.

[Raymond AndersonParticipant @raymondanderson34407]

Albrecht.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

7 quid for the 1/4" Rohm chuck and 10 quid for the full 'arf inch job. **LINK**

[James Jenkins 1Participant @jamesjenkins1]

Hi all,

Thanks for all your replies – some really good options there, so thank you.

I had a hunt around yesterday and found a couple of really good/new Jacobs arbors with soft ends among my spare parts, so I think I will bore and ream these to the 6mm diameter of the spot drill I have purchased and then retain with a grub screw. They are already centre drilled, so the fact I don't have a good centre/spot drill set up at the moment won't matter, which is handy. I will use the second one to make a centre drill holder in the same fashion, probably knurling them to help get them out the tailstock (why oh, why, did Drummond not make the tailstock hollow so you can knock tapers out!?!).

Hopefully that will workout well and they should be a pretty useful and simple solution to the problem.

As I say thanks for the advice everyone, you have convinced me that when the need arises I will get an Albrecht. A collet was a good idea though, for anyone wanting a permanent holder without making one.

James

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

I use an old chuck with MT and leave the centre drill in it all the time.. They can’t drill off centre, or they would break.

Peak4 and Emgee have the right idea. Loctite, if good enough would ensure the concentricity better than a grub screw from one side (if the hole was very slightly oversize). So simple. I would never buy an expensive chuck for a job like holding a centre drill – a waste of time, effort and money.

Do tell me how far off-centre your centre drills are running. Does that mean that when you put in a live or dead centre, it makes any difference? Don’t you face, centre drill and fit the centre support before making surface cuts?

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by James Jenkins 1 on 01/07/2018 07:17:01:…

..why oh, why, did Drummond not make the tailstock hollow so you can knock tapers out!?!).

??? M-type tailstock spindle has a hole all the way through it so you can put a brass bar in and tap the drill or chuck out of place. I don't think you'll have much luck trying to pull a MT1 taper out of its socket by grasping a knurled surface. Take a good look at your tailstock spindle. It might just have something stuck in there plugging the hole. Have you wound the tailstock spindle all the way out and looked if there is a machined slot in the far end to insert a tapered drift to remove the drill/chuck arbor?

If all else fails, stick the spindle in the chuck and drill a hole through to the end of the taper. Just make sure its a bit smaller than the small end of the taper. ISTR you have two lathes so this should be do-able?

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