Can you recommend a “medium-speed” epoxy adhesive? (e.g. “30 minute” or “60 minute”)

[John Smith 47Participant @johnsmith47]

Hello

Can you suggest an epoxy adhesive that sets SLIGHTLY slower than the modern "5 minute" type of epoxies?

I would like something that stays workable for say 15 to 30minutes… and then sets as fast as possible thereafter.

Ideally, it should also be:
– be transparent,
– be 'general purpose' (able to bond to most plastics… such as ABS or PS, metals and woods)
– be easy to clean up using a solvent (e.g. Isopropyl Alcohol) before setting
– Must have reasonable rigidity and good strength.

Background
I find "5 minute" epoxy resin adhesives start setting far to quickly and I keep having to make additional small batches, but things like "Araldite Ultra Strong Adhesive Glue Blue Standard" stay repositionable for too long… technically for "80 minutes" and you can't move them (because they stay fragile) for 8 hours… and you can't really sand them for 14 hours.

So I need something in the middle. Even a 10 minute setting time, rather than 5 minutes would help me quite a lot!

J

 

EDIT: I prefer separate tubes if possible, as I find them easier to dispense accurately.

Edited By John Smith 47 on 17/01/2022 12:16:06

[John Smith 47Participant @johnsmith47]

[Brian Baker 2Participant @brianbaker2]

Greetings John, epoxy is used quite a lot for small boat repairs, so if you have a boat chandlers near you, it would be a good place to look, they usually sell quick & slow setting. The brand I use is SPX I think, will check that tomorrow when I next visit the boat. All epoxy is temperature sensitive, and should not be used below 10 degree C, and the slower the setting time of the type you select, the stronger the bond.

Regards

Brian B

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Not used any for a while but Zap make some decent ones though may be more than you want in teh two 4oz bottles

Or Araldite Crystal has around a 20min working time

Edited By JasonB on 17/01/2022 12:27:33

[John Smith 47Participant @johnsmith47]

Posted by JasonB on 17/01/2022 12:21:24:

Not used any for a while but Zap make some decent ones though may be more than you want in teh two 4oz bottles

Or Araldite Crystal has around a 20min working time

Edited By JasonB on 17/01/2022 12:27:33

Zap looks promising. I need a faster supplier though. Yandles only seem to do 2nd class post.

Araldite Crystal only claims to have a "4 minute working time"

I don't know of any boat chandlers near me… But good suggestion.

 

Edited By John Smith 47 on 17/01/2022 12:41:41

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by John Smith 47 on 17/01/2022 12:41:12:

Posted by JasonB on 17/01/2022 12:21:24:

..

Zap looks promising. I need a faster supplier though. Yandles only seem to do 2nd class post.

…

Rejecting a glue because the supplier only does 2nd class post seems pretty daft to me! The requirement is tricky enough without adding non-technical obstacles.

Focussing on what matters saves a lot of time and effort in engineering. Be careful – it's all too easy to be distracted by trivia and red herrings. Unless working to an important fixed deadline a short postal delay won't alter the price of fish. Impatience is a sin. It's never a good reason for doing anything.

Dave

[Ramon WilsonParticipant @ramonwilson3]

I have used Zap epoxies for several years now. About the best available at the moment in reasonable small volumes but there are others.

An eBay search should get you a rapid supplier – I bought my last from 'Als Hobbies.

5, 15 and 30 min all available in 2oz and 4oz sizes

Tug

[John Smith 47Participant @johnsmith47]

To answer my own question, I have found this stuff:

"MID-CURE epoxy 15min (BSI203)" made by Bob Smith Industries (BSI)

http://www.align-trex.co.uk/bsi-epoxy-mid-cure-15min-128g-4-5oz-bsi203.html

…Which looks like a reasonable compromise. i.e. http://www.bsi-inc.co.uk/mid-cure-epoxy.html say allow "45 minutes before handling parts and 2 hours for full strength."
Amazon.com say it has a "15 minute working time"

Wait, the US parent website http://www.bsi-inc.co.uk/mid-cure-epoxy.html says
"MID-CURE can be worked for about 10 minutes, with adhesion beginning after about 15 minutes. Full cure in 2-3 hours."

In truth, a working time of only 10 minutes is still a BIT fast for me. However it is certainly much better than their "5 min" Quik-Cure™ Epoxy, which begins to set in 4 or 5 minutes, in my experience.

Zap sounds promising and will be top of my list if BSI is no good, but I needed the stuff TOMORROW and ran out of time for this decision. 

I already use BSI's 5 minute epoxy which I find excellent. I like its strength, clarity, range of materials it bond well with and plus the way unset surplus can be cleaned up with Isopropyl alcohol, but too fast for this application. 

I'll let you know how I get on with the BSI 15min Mid-Cure.

J

PS
FWIW, BSI also make a "30 minute Slow Cure", but I think that will be annoyingly slow "Full cure in 6-8 hours" but "cured epoxy reaches full strength within 24 hours". So realistically you can't touch it for a whole working day… :^(

 

Edited By John Smith 47 on 17/01/2022 13:46:21

[John Smith 47Participant @johnsmith47]

Posted by Ramon Wilson on 17/01/2022 13:20:46:

I have used Zap epoxies for several years now. About the best available at the moment in reasonable small volumes but there are others.

An eBay search should get you a rapid supplier – I bought my last from 'Als Hobbies.

5, 15 and 30 min all available in 2oz and 4oz sizes

Tug

Noted. Thanks.

Personally I hate using eBay because of the difficulty of getting proper invoice out of anyone. And worse they have a mysterious way of sometime (but not always) archiving your purchases off their website after something painfully short like 3 months.

J

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

You need to speak to the technical department of a glue manufacturer. It's just the sort of question they're for.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Order the Zap from here in the next hour and you will have it tomorrow

But I don't suppose you will want to pay the premium for fast delivery

Edited By JasonB on 17/01/2022 14:06:50

[Joseph Noci 1Participant @josephnoci1]

+1 for ZAP epoxies – I use it extensively building these…Works very well

[DalboyParticipant @dalboy]

+1 for Zap epoxy I use the 5 minute one but it is a good glue

[Ramon WilsonParticipant @ramonwilson3]

John (Smith) I was not aware Bob Smith Industries glues were available in the UK. Their CA glues are well recommended in USA so would 'assume' (not always a good idea!) that their epoxy would be of a similar quality.

I'll certainly be ordering some epoxy and CA to try out and compare with the Zap

I usually search eBay mainly to see the variation in price of items – amazing sometimes the considerable differences in cost of some products – never had an issue with archived purchases either but each to his own

Thanks for that link

Tug

[John Smith 47Participant @johnsmith47]

Do any of you have experience of Zap's "Z-Poxy 30 Minute" epoxy resin adhesive?

If it sets in 30 minutes, in practice what is it's working time…15 minutes?

J

PS Re buying from eBay, I need VAT invoices. And they seem to be the exception on eBay! Whereas on the dreaded eBay they are generally (albeit not always) automatic.

Edited By John Smith 47 on 17/01/2022 16:36:05

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by John Smith 47 on 17/01/2022 16:35:14:

[…]

PS Re buying from eBay, I need VAT invoices. And they seem to be the exception on eBay! …

.

It’s none of my business, John … but I will ask anyway : For the trivial sum that you are [presumably] spending at this stage; do you really need a VAT invoice ?

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 17/01/2022 16:48:57

[egaParticipant @ega]

Whatever happened to Araldite?

I think they used to have a technical department which would advise on questions like this?

What about the West brand, too?

[Ramon WilsonParticipant @ramonwilson3]

Posted by John Smith 47 on 17/01/2022 16:35:14:

Do any of you have experience of Zap's "Z-Poxy 30 Minute" epoxy resin adhesive?

If it sets in 30 minutes, in practice what is it's working time…15 minutes?

J

PS Re buying from eBay, I need VAT invoices. And they seem to be the exception on eBay! Whereas on the dreaded eBay they are generally (albeit not always) automatic.

Edited By John Smith 47 on 17/01/2022 16:36:05

Yes – Zap 30 min has around 25-30 mins work time depending on the ambient temperature. It my workshop – usually around 65C it will begin to gel after about 20mins. Once that begins there is little time left to work with.

I find a good hour has to pass before handling it with safety but that of course depends on what the workpiece actually is.

Tug

[John Smith 47Participant @johnsmith47]

Zap Epoxy seems to have a lot fans here.
Out of interest, what specifically is so good about Zap epoxy?
e.g. Is it just it's bonding strength? Or ease of application…. or what?

J

[John Smith 47Participant @johnsmith47]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 17/01/2022 16:44:56:

Posted by John Smith 47 on 17/01/2022 16:35:14:

[…]

PS Re buying from eBay, I need VAT invoices. And they seem to be the exception on eBay! …

.

It’s none of my business, John … but I will ask anyway : For the trivial sum that you are [presumably] spending at this stage; do you really need a VAT invoice ?

MichaelG.

It becomes particularly relevant when making larger purchases of course, but yes correct on both accounts

J

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by John Smith 47 on 18/01/2022 15:35:13:

.
It becomes particularly relevant when making larger purchases of course, but yes correct on both accounts

.

i.e.

1. Yes … It’s none of my business, and
2. Yes … You really need a VAT invoice for this trivial sum

Oh well

MichaelG.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 18/01/2022 16:03:14:

Posted by John Smith 47 on 18/01/2022 15:35:13:

.
…

…

1. …
2. Yes … You really need a VAT invoice for this trivial sum

Oh well

MichaelG.

As John insisted on next day delivery, the courier fee must have been more than the cost of the glue. Perhaps the total isn't a trivial sum…

Claiming back VAT means John's project is definitely a business operation. I don't mind, others might.

Dave

[Frances IoMParticipant @francesiom58905]

I guess the value of free advice is zero unlike a paid consultancy those offering advice can’t be sued though to be honest I think it strains the ethos of the Message Board Forum.

[Dave SParticipant @daves59043]

The benefits of free advice are that if it goes wrong the end user gets to keep all the broken bits…

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

I used to buy my epoxy from 'HobbyKing' who stock 5,15,20 and 30 min versions. It was rarely used for anything critical but didn't let me down. I favoured the slowest set which I'd expect to give the stronger bond.

As for VAT.. When I was in business and having to do the returns, then it became a matter of determination to claim every possible last penny….

pgk

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