Boiler tested and OK

[Kevin NormanParticipant @kevinnorman48306]

I have completed my Sweet Pea boiler and tested it to twice the working pressure which is 2 x 80psi and it held this for longer than 15 mins which was recommended.My question is as I am not the member of a club and do not intend to use it on a public track is it worth getting an inspector to verify the test and supply a certificate or would this be a waste of time and money.

[Kevin NormanParticipant @kevinnorman48306]

[Dennis WAParticipant @denniswa]

In my opinion it is legally sensible to have an independent verification, no matter where you intend running your loco. I submit that you are at personal risk not to have done so, even in the unlikely event of an accident on private property.

I offer a few thoughts :

• Was the gauge you used for the pressure test calibrated by a recognised test authority?
• Did you have an independent witness?
• Can you prove that you followed the published design in terms of construction and materials used? If you varied the design did you verify the soundness of the changes through applying recognised formulae and standards?
• What joining processes were used? Could you prove that all joints were sound – as an example where silver solder was used, was there proper penetration?

Dennis

[michael howarth 1Participant @michaelhowarth1]

Kevin…I am in the same situation as yourself. However I am satisfied with the standard of the boilers that I make and test them myself. As for the accuracy of gauges, I have several and test them against each other….not perfect perhaps but not far out either. If I were to wish to operate my boilers in public then I would be obliged to follow the current code. But from 1st January 2013 the British Model Engineering Liaison Group are introducing a revised scheme of testing for boilers, including those in the 3Bar/litre category which were formerly excused certain formalities. I have read through their document….The Examination and Testing of Miniature Boilers. As is often the case with these things there is an excess of verbiage which does not make for easy reading but I think things are going to become even more complicated. This new testing regime appears to demand a 2xWP hydraulic test on completion of the boiler. Before the boiler is operated and after boiler fittings have been attached , another 1.5XWP hydraulic test must take place followed by a full steam test. Thereafter an annual steam test must be undertaken. Each stage of the routine must be documented on the boiler certificate. That is for the 3/Bar litre boiler. As I understand it, larger boilers have to undergo an annual hydraulic + steam test.

As I see it, if you have your boiler certificated as to build quality then that must be worth something in terms of peace of mind but it will be only that unless you wish to go down the road of full annual testing and certification. If I am wrong in any of my understanding I welcome correction.

Mick

[michael howarth 1Participant @michaelhowarth1]

Further to the above post, the document, "The examination and Testing of Miniature Boilers" can be found at …………..

http://www.normodeng.org.uk/09_2012_Test_Code_V10.pdf

[SteambuffParticipant @steambuff]

There is no legal requirement to have your boiler tested if you only want to run it on private property. (Your own garden or maybe a friends garden) …. BUT … If you have any insurance cover for the loco, it will be invalid for any boiler related incident and you will be personally liable for any damages or claims made against you. (This applies to any boiler that does not have current certification – Insured or not)

Why not join the local club? Pop in once or twice a year and get them to test it, this may be cheaper than an independent boiler tester. You never know you might enjoy being a club member and the benefits it offers and then attend on a regular basis.

(I believe Maxitrak offer a boiler testing service)

In the end, the choice is yours.

Dave

[Kevin NormanParticipant @kevinnorman48306]

Thanks all for your replies,

The points that Dennis WA brings up,

1) I did not use a calibrated pressure gauge but two new ones that I calibrated against each other.

2) I did not have an independent witness

3) I followed the building instructions to a T and all the materials were bought as a boiler kit from Blackgates Eng. including flanged plates.

4) I used cadmium free 455 silver solder throughout and am positive that there was full penetration on all joints except the two that it is impossible to see , the throatplate to outer firebox and the front tubeplate but going by the amount of silver solder used on these I would say full penetration was achieved.

I am satisfied in my own mind that the boiler is OK as I have tested many full size boilers to present for survey but I suppose as was suggested for complete peace of mind it would be best to have it certified by an insurance company.Has anyone suggestions for this and what would be the cost?

Kevin

[SteambuffParticipant @steambuff]

Kevin

Where are you based?

Dave

[Kevin NormanParticipant @kevinnorman48306]

Hi Dave,

I am based in Reighton close to Filey North Yorkshire

Kevin

[michael howarth 1Participant @michaelhowarth1]

Kevin ….bear in mind, that if you require insurance cover, your certification will have to be updated annually. It is not the insurance company that "certfies" the boiler. It is tested by a boiler inspector which is a prerequisite for insurance cover.

Mick

[Kevin NormanParticipant @kevinnorman48306]

Hi Mick,

Thanks for your info , yes this I this is what I require a boiler inspector to test and certify my boiler.

Do you know of anybody local to me that can carry out this I live in Reighton near Filey , North Yorkshire and how much should it cost?

Kevin

[michael howarth 1Participant @michaelhowarth1]

Kevin….I live in South Lincolnshire so miles away from you. May I suggest that you have a look in Model Engineer under "Club News" or "Diary" and that might give you a club or two in your area that will undoubtedly have boiler inspectors.

Good luck

Mick

[SteambuffParticipant @steambuff]

Mike,

Club boiler testers are only allowed to test 'members' boilers …. joining a club would be cheaper than paying an independent tester.

Dave

[Kevin NormanParticipant @kevinnorman48306]

Hi Mick,

I have already had a look around two local clubs , York and Rydale and liked the look of both .

At Rydale I actually witnessed them testing a 31/2" Brittania boiler.

However I did not get around to joining either clubs as I have my house on the market and hope to relocate close to where you are living,actually I am going to view a property in S.Lincs this Thursday

Thanks for your help I will make a decision on what to do in the next couple of weeks

Kevin

Just got your latest post , yes I think it would be best to join a club

Edited By Kevin Norman on 12/11/2012 21:56:47

[MICHAEL WILLIAMSParticipant @michaelwilliams41215]

Personally I have deeply rooted objections to my completely sound boilers being ' inspected , tested and approved ' by club boiler inspectors that I would consider professionally to be one step up from the village idiot .

So that brings me to the actual point of this posting :

What are the criteria for deciding that a club boiler inspector is competent ?

Who decides ?

What happens if a club boiler inspector gets it wrong ?

Michael Williams .

 

Edited By MICHAEL WILLIAMS on 12/11/2012 23:15:29

[michael howarth 1Participant @michaelhowarth1]

Michael…..when this subject was discussed recently on the Gauge 1 forum there were some there that expressed similar sentiments. I have only met two boiler inspectors. One was a perfect gent who seemed to know his business and the other slotted nicely into the category you describe. As to qualifications……the regulations say he must be "experienced"…….so that solves that one doesn't it??

As previously mentioned, I do not run my stuff in public and I am perfectly happy doing my own testing.

Having read those regulations again though, I am pretty sure that my wife's pressure cooker which is in the 5Bar/litre category will require two hydraulic tests and an annual steam test. Now that thing would make a nasty mess if it went bang!

Mick

[Kevin NormanParticipant @kevinnorman48306]

Thanks all for your comments,

I agree with Michael Williams although it is only my second boiler I have full confidence in my own workmanship and as he says who are these people qualified to pass judgement.

I was a Chief Engineer on ships for 25 years and have carried out many hydraulic tests on boilers and presented them for survey by a classification society surveyor who was fully qualified.I also held a certificate from Lloyds allowing me to carry out surveys on ship's machinery but not on pressure vessels.

It seems that if you want to insure the boiler you first have to get a certificate from a possibly unqualified boiler inspector , surely the insurance companies should have their own fully qualified inspectors.

I have again carried out a pressure test on the boiler to 160psi and it dropped 1psi in 4 hours!

Kevin

[michael howarth 1Participant @michaelhowarth1]

Blimey Kevin……I wouldn't mind betting that you outqualify many of those who would judge your boiler!

As for insurance, as stated in previous posts, it is not required if you only intend to use the boiler in private. If you do go down the insurance road you will have to have an annual test. Why bother with it says I.

[nigel jones 5Participant @nigeljones5]

Youve answered your own question – there is little to be gained unless you require insurance, which you dont. Youve done what the inspecter would do. Dont even think of getting it independantly tested, cheaper to buy a small second hand car! If its made to drawing, decent materials and soldered reasonably well then you have ticked att the boxes – well done by the way, far too many people too scared to make their own for some strange reason.

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

I note that small boilers DON'T need to be inspected for insurance, a Tich, for example. But if commercially made then they must be made according to certain regulations.

But would anyone like to come around and check out our cappucino machine? Or the works central heating boiler (the safety valve was padlocked on its setting in about 1987 according to the faded label on it…) It might only be a bar or two, but it's lot of litres…

Funny world, isn't it…

Neil

[Kevin NormanParticipant @kevinnorman48306]

Thanks all again for your comments,

You are right Fizzy too many builders are frightened of tackling boiler making for their models,I spoke to quite a few experienced people at shows before attempting the Sweet Pea boiler and some of these people were of the oppinion that it was necessary to use oxy / acetylene for the job,however I researched all about boiler making before I started even building the GLR vertical boiler for practice from which I learnt a lot, all done with propane torches which were found to be adequate for both jobs.

I also think that it is a great feeling when you have completed the boiler yourself and it passes the test without leaks( which was not the case with my first attempt with the GLR boiler).I had the same feeling when first running the completed Sweet Pea chassis on compressed air.

Kevin

[michael howarth 1Participant @michaelhowarth1]

Neil….it was the case that small boilers that fell into the 3Bar/litre category were exempt but from 1st January 2013 the Model Engineering Liaison Group regulations specifically INCLUDE small boilers in the testing regime. Strangely, the above group contains representatives of the Insurance industry! Bit tough if you run a Mamod !

As you say Neil……it's a funny old world.

Mick

[SteambuffParticipant @steambuff]

Mick,

I would wait till after the 1st Jan to see what is officially published by the associations. I believe that to be covered by the 16mmngm insurance cover, you will NOT need a annual inspection.

I am an boiler inspector for the 16mmngm, I will post more when I aam officially told more.

But any Club or Venue can (and does) demand a valid 'Steam Test' Cert.

Dave

[Red DotParticipant @reddot]

The above posts have been very helpful. I work independently and do not have access to a club, so boiler testing is a matter of some concern to me. I had been wondering how to get a pressure gauge calibrated, but having read the above, I shall take the pragmatic route – buy three different gauges and cross check them with each other.

Many thanks.

[FMESParticipant @fmes]

Gents,

As an authorised boiler tester within the Southern Federation, please find a link to the new boiler test code, due to come into force in January 2013 **LINK**

Lofty

Edited By Lofty76 on 25/12/2012 20:00:23

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