Arc Euro boring and facing head

[davidsuffolkParticipant @davidsuffolk]

I am looking to buy a boring head and had read that some of the cheaper makes from India & China were a bit problematic. I have some Vertex (from Taiwan) equipment which seemed to be pretty good to me so I was planning to buy one of those.

I had put a wanted ad out to see if anyone had a good quality one for sale and was offered a used UPA 3 boring and facing head. It was a lot more than I had planned to spend but made me think it might be worth buying. I looked to see what was available new. Even Vertex's is pushing £600 so I was surprised to see that Arc Euro's boring and facing head was £343 which seemed exceptional value.

Now I accept that quality costs and you get what you pay for so I don't want to buy if it is of a poor quality,similar to the cheaper fixed boring heads on sale everywhere for £50 or so.

So, has anyone any experience of these heads? Are they durable and accurate?

Any comments or advice appreciated!

[davidsuffolkParticipant @davidsuffolk]

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

David you say you are looking to buy a boring head but what you were offered and what ARC sell is a boring and facing head, do you need the automatic feed facility of the B&F head or just the fixed adjustment of a boring head?

J

[davidsuffolkParticipant @davidsuffolk]

Having seen what a boring and facing head is capable of, I thought it looked a better bet.

As I have neither I thought at £340 the Arc one looked very good value. I was just a bit concerned it might not be very good so wondered if anyone has one and if so what they thought of it?

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I've probably only had a couple of occasions where a B&F head would have been useful but managed to do the job in other ways. I do use my 2" boring head quite a lot though.

As you like the larger models a B&F head may come in more useful as you may not be able to swing things on the lathe and have to use the mill.

J

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Why not contact Arc and ask Ketan's view?

Neil

[Bob RodgersonParticipant @bobrodgerson97362]

BobHi David,

I have the Vertex Boring and facing hrad and can confirm that it is a really nice piece of equipment. The instructions that it comes with are useless however and I found that it was a clone of a Czech manufactured head and instructions are available on the internet.

It produces nice tapered bores when used with the quill auto down feed.

[davidsuffolkParticipant @davidsuffolk]

I can do that but I was hoping someone might have got one and could report what it was like in use.

[davidsuffolkParticipant @davidsuffolk]

Sorry my reply to Neil came after your post Bob. As I said, I have and like Vertex but their B&F is nearly double the Arc one (though they look very similar in the pictures) and I was asking whether anyone has one of the Arc ones and what it was like in the real world?

Edited By davidsuffolk on 21/09/2015 22:22:29

[LambtonParticipant @lambton]

I have a British made Arrand boring head which is excellent. I do not think the company still exists which is a great pity.

[steamdaveParticipant @steamdave]

Posted by Lambton on 22/09/2015 10:06:00:

I have a British made Arrand boring head which is excellent. I do not think the company still exists which is a great pity.

I second Lambton's sentiment.

Years ago I picked up a second hand Arrand boring head, but sold it on and bought one of the 'similar to the cheaper fixed boring heads on sale everywhere for £50 or so' as davidsuffolk remarked, thinking I could make a bit of cash. Couldn't get on with it, so reinvested a bit more money on a new Arrand before the business ceased. It is light years ahead of the Far Eastern stuff, so lesson learned the expensive way!

Dave
The Emerald Isle

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Posted by davidsuffolk on 21/09/2015 19:26:43:

I am looking to buy a boring head and had read that some of the cheaper makes from India & China were a bit problematic. I have some Vertex (from Taiwan) equipment which seemed to be pretty good to me so I was planning to buy one of those.

I had put a wanted ad out to see if anyone had a good quality one for sale and was offered a used UPA 3 boring and facing head. It was a lot more than I had planned to spend but made me think it might be worth buying. I looked to see what was available new. Even Vertex's is pushing £600 so I was surprised to see that Arc Euro's boring and facing head was £343 which seemed exceptional value.

Now I accept that quality costs and you get what you pay for so I don't want to buy if it is of a poor quality,similar to the cheaper fixed boring heads on sale everywhere for £50 or so.

So, has anyone any experience of these heads? Are they durable and accurate?

Any comments or advice appreciated!

David,

There are makers of 'cheap' boring heads in India and China. There are also makers of 'good quality' boring heads in both countries. It is down to who chooses to import what, for this product.

If you dont need the automatic feed facility, then what is available from the likes of ARC, Chester, Warco, Chronos are fine. I say this based on sales experience for the product range under the £100.00 mark, as well as having visited the factories who make for the companies specified. Return/failure rate is about 2 in a 100, based on ARC sales figures.

The Universal Boring and Facing Heads: Broadly speaking, these are a Narex copy. They are made by large set-ups who have specialist skills for making such heads. To the best of my knowledge, there are only three good makers for this product in China, with regular production for this item. In India, it is made against special order only. It is my opinion that Vertex's head is supplied by one of the three factories from mainland China, and ARC happens to buy from one of them. There are very minor differences (mainly screws and nuts) between the three, as they all share the same blueprint, which I have seen, when we had a problem with a unit which was returned.

I am aware that you have failed to receive any comments from users, in this thread. So, as a seller, I can only address this by referring to ARCs sales and returns. ARC is happy with the product and its sales, with one return, as the said unit was faulty. About 50% sold to businesses and 50% to private end users. The product we sell is packed in a case which is different from Vertex, and other than that, I too fail to see the difference. It does not come with any instructions.

Ketan at ARC.

[davidsuffolkParticipant @davidsuffolk]

Thank you Ketan for your long and helpful reply.

Since first posting I had emailed ARC in the hope that you were going to exhibit at the Midland ME exhibition so I could have a look at one in the flesh (and with money in my pocket!).

If so, maybe see you there.

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Sorry David, we have stopped attending shows for the past three to four years now. You may find same or similar product at the show. If not, you are welcome to visit us on your way through, as we are open Monday to Friday till 4.30pm, and on Saturdays upto 12.30 in the afternoon. We have always got plenty of tea and coffee

Hope you enjoy the show.

Ketan at ARC.

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

I doubt you need the facing facility. In over 35 years in industry I never needed the facing facility.

[davidsuffolkParticipant @davidsuffolk]

Others have made a similar comment and you are probably right. Most people seem to manage OK with just a boring head (and they are a lot cheaper!)

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

There has been a couple of designs for boring and facing heads in the magazines. One I think in Model Engineer which use a separate part to provide the facing when needed and another in MEW that I feel made poor use of mild steel. Cast iron would be better. That one was conventional but lacked taper boring which is a bit specialed. The ME one could be fabricated, made a bit smaller, changed as required etc It's a very heft thing and designed to screw onto a myford spindle. It can be used for fly cutting too. They aren't that difficult to make but the MEW one would be more work.

Facing is useful when a part is being made where a surface is needed around a hole that needs to be square to it as it can be done in one setting . Useful if the work can't be put on a lathe.

John

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[BazParticipant @baz89810]

Graham Meek has a design for a boring and facing head in his book Projects for your workshop, available from TEE Publishing. A friend of mine has made one and is very pleased with it. I have a small Wohlhaupter boring and facing head and use it a lot on the Myford when castings are clamped to the cross slide, it does enable a hole to be bored and the end faced square, and chamfered all in one setup.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I made one out of a length of 2" bar, so pretty small, but it works up to 3" plus and I've been pretty happy with it. the expensive parts were an MT3 arbour and a set of boring tools. No auto feed.

never shared it before because I'm embarrassed that the hold for that damn screwhead broke out

Neil

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 22/09/2015 17:34:05:

Never shared it before because I'm embarrassed that the hold for that damn screw head broke out

Neil

.

Bring it round, I'll weld it up.

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

This is the ME one.

The pins are struck by a see saw like attachment with a pin on each end. It misses them when the see saw is level and has click locks to hold it in place when it isn't. I haven't used it for some time and should have rubbed some oil on it before taking the shot. The slight tarnish looks much worse than it is.

The idea of the tool holder part is to allow it to be changed for say larger bores or what ever.

The one in MEW had a collar round it that was simply grasped when facing was needed and could be locked up out of the way when not in use. I don't think mild steel is really a good idea for that sort of use but if needs must.

I'd guess more recent ones don't use the hand to grasp it but lots did.

John

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Edited By John W1 on 22/09/2015 18:54:33

[Gray62Participant @gray62]

There's another excellent design for a boring and facing head by Graham Howe

His drawings are excellent and easy to follow

[Enough!Participant @enough]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 22/09/2015 17:34:05:

I'm embarrassed that the hold for that damn screwhead broke out

I'd have broken it right out and swore blind (if anyone commented) that it was intended to be that way.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 22/09/2015 17:34:05:

never shared it before because I'm embarrassed that the hold for that damn screwhead broke out

.

That's what you get for using those nasty Metric Cap-Heads

MichaelG.

[Bruce EdneyParticipant @bruceedney59949]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 22/09/2015 17:34:05:

I made one out of a length of 2" bar, so pretty small, but it works up to 3" plus and I've been pretty happy with it. the expensive parts were an MT3 arbour and a set of boring tools. No auto feed.

Do you have drawings you would be willing to share Neil? Or is the design a MEW or ME project?

Bruce

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