An electrostatic mystery …

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

Posted by Russell Eberhardt on 05/03/2015 07:59:03:

Posted by John Olsen on 05/03/2015 00:34:01:making the difference.

Did you know that pulling sellotape off the roll generates low energy X-rays?

Err . . . . Aren't all X-rays high energy by virtue of their short wavelength?

Russell

within the electromagnetic specturm x-rays also have their own range and energy. Indeed simplifying x-ray production as a voltage differential streaming electons to the anode to generate x-rays then the higher voltage gives 'harder' x-rays and indeed x-ray gneerators have an ally plate to block the low penetration stuff and reduce scatter.

Typical medical application about 45kvp for 3mAs to grab a pic of a cat's extremity onto modern digital detectors compared to say 110kvp for 1.5mAs to snatch a lower contrast but 'frozen' frame of a 50kg dog's heart

(peak kilovoltage for milliamp seconds)

I doubt sellotape x-rays would make it through bacofoil.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Before WW2 dad used to get the "Hobbies" magazine, and I remember reading through them when I was around 10, 12 years old, and one had an article on how to make an X-Ray tube from an old vacuum type incandescent light bulb. Can't remember anything about the HT power supply.

Ian S C

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

> is when making the beds in the morning, whip a sheet off the bed, the hold your finger 1/2" away from a radiator, or other earth point, and BANG, a good fat spark.

In the mother country, we use cotton sheets

Neil

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 06/03/2015 10:09:44:

In the mother country, we use cotton sheets

.

Ah, but if you used black silk and white silk sheets, we might get back to the original mystery.

MichaelG.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

> black silk and white silk sheets

At least you're not suggesting fifty shades of grey..

Neil

[Nathan SharpeParticipant @nathansharpe19746]

black silk and white silk sheets

At least you're not suggesting fifty shades of grey..

How would you see the spark if you're wearing the blindfold?

Nathan

[Jesse Hancock 1Participant @jessehancock1]

When first married me and mine had silk sheets on the bed, I think they were a wedding gift.

I remember messing around between the sheets play fighting and what not. Anyway the trouble and strife shot out her side and kissed the bedside cabinet good night. It was all taken in good spirit and she only laughed, I laughed myself breathless.

Learnt a good lesson on friction or lack of it that night.

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Going back to the original post, all the theories are fine, but is there any evidence that anyone else replicated the experiments? Until they do the theorising is pointless.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by John Haine on 07/03/2015 07:32:22:

Going back to the original post, all the theories are fine, but is there any evidence that anyone else replicated the experiments? Until they do the theorising is pointless.

.

"Going back to the original post"

Thank you, John

My own investigations have so far found nothing specifically explaining, Symmer's results.

… Which is why I posted this 'mystery' on the forum; in the hope that someone may have seen something.

MichaelG.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Don't worry, they were cotton sheets, and wool blankets.

Don't know if it was the clothes he wore, but dad always got a shock when he got out of the car.

Ian S C

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

We had a 1966 Ford Anglia Super. The seats were upholstered in some sort of "plastic" leather. Almost every time that i got oui of the car, I used to get a good belt as I touched the door, with my feet on the ground. So my clothes and the seat were generating a couple of hundred volts or so. We cured it by making up cloth covers for the front seats. Being a two car, any rear seat passengers leaned on the door before touching the ground, so were not as highly charged, and felt nothing. If they did, they never complained!

Howard

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

We used to slide off the imitation leaher covered stools at work and could generate 14Kv

[Cornish JackParticipant @cornishjack]

One of the first lessons learned (the hard way!) on S&R helos was DON'T keep contact with the winch cable when you first touch down – ground or water! Wet winching in Holyhead harbour towards the end of a fairly strenuous session on the wire, I forgot! I was breathing hard, mouth open and got a static short across my teeth – amalgum fillings! Quite startling! A few years previously at Thorney Island we were tasked to liaise with the Farnborough boffins doing research on helo static discharge. The boffins were in the Littlehampton lifeboat and we did several runs to check discharge levels. they told us afterwards that the majority were in the 150-170, 000 volts range! Given that I was acting as the end of line conductor, I'm assuming that the current levels were very low.

rgds

Bill

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

It used to be common for cars to have a chain hanging down at the rear to stop electrostatic build up, which later was replaced by a conductive plastic strip. I suffered from car sickness as a child and fitting the chain cured it.
At school we had a vandergraff generator and one experiment was to stand on a wax block, get charged up then, with hair standing on end, shake hands with another pupil. I found this made me feel sick reinforcing the theory that being charged was the cause of my car sickness.

[Nick Clarke 3Participant @nickclarke3]

When I first started teaching nearly 40 years ago we had more time and fewer 'safety recommendations' and two demonstrations were getting a group standing in plastic washing up bowls to hold hands and charging up the line with static electricity before asking the end pupil to touch a water tap and secondly to stand in a bowl oneself and light a Bunsen burner by sparking across to it. Lots of fun, but I suspect today the main objection would be to the expense of keeping 30 plastic washing up bowls for one experiment!

One of the most interesting manifestations of static discharge can still be seen if you still develop your own roll film. Loading a film into a developing spiral in a darkroom, when you get to the end where it is secured to the backing paper you need to tear it off. This usually produces a visible spark, but I have never seen it affect the film, surprisingly.

[Anthony KnightsParticipant @anthonyknights16741]

For big sparks look at this

**LINK**

[Frances IoMParticipant @francesiom58905]

there must be many on this forum old enough to remember the Flash Gordon or other ‘space’ adventures being part of the Sat morning matinees for kids at the local cinema (or as my father called it the local bug + flea exchange) – huge sparks were a common feature of all alien or villains’ lairs – mother reckoned the 3d was good bargain to get rid of the kids for a morning as us older children had to take our younger siblings as part of the package.

[Philip RoweParticipant @philiprowe13116]

Interestingly I had all but forgotten about the anti static chains and straps hanging from the rear of cars, never see them nowadays. Does this mean that cars no longer produce static or have we all become immune? I'm sure some of the boffins on this forum will be able to provide an answer.

Phil

[Alan VosParticipant @alanvos39612]

Posted by Philip Rowe on 13/07/2019 11:35:40:

Does this mean that cars no longer produce static or have we all become immune?

I believe modern car tyres are electrical conductiors.

[Alan VosParticipant @alanvos39612]

Posted by Bazyle on 12/07/2019 23:13:20:

I suffered from car sickness as a child and fitting the chain cured it.

I recall anti-static straps being added for that reason. Has anybody ever explained how a static charge could cause car sickness in the first place?

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Alan Vos on 13/07/2019 14:40:10:

Posted by Bazyle on 12/07/2019 23:13:20:

I suffered from car sickness as a child and fitting the chain cured it.

I recall anti-static straps being added for that reason. Has anybody ever explained how a static charge could cause car sickness in the first place?

.

Plenty of 'theories' around … but I supect this is a reasonable dismissal: **LINK**

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/721219/Flying-doctor-Motion-sickness.html

MichaelG.

.

Edit: But see also http://www.mizter.com/testimonials.htm

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 13/07/2019 15:14:15

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

I believe it's reasonable to assume that motion sickness is a result of confusing sensory input that causes the body to react as if it has ingested a toxin that causes nausea. I phrase that carefully because not all noxious substances will cause vomiting. Those that do will primarily be associated with dizzyness and balance disturbance which is based in sensory input conflicts from vision, the semicircular canals and positonal awareness (based deep in the spinal chord). But all those sensory inputs have to travel to brain centres so direct toxic effects on those or damage elewhere that releases active substances can all be responsible.

However one of the aspects of our humanity is memory and belief and past experiences will colour our judgement as well as the simple element of placebo response. Thus if static did cause (for instance) a degree of hair-raising and that happened in conjucntion with a past episode of nausea it may be a signal towards panic and another bout and just as simply believing that a grounding strap works may be effective. Any experimentation to prove or debunk such hypotheses requires proper double blind trials.

One reason for all the internet myths and 'old wives tales' will often be that if some benefit occured through coincidence or in a statistically low percentage the beneficiary is more likely to hail the miracle louder than the many who gained no benefit. At the same time one cannot gainsay the simple expedience of 'if it works for you then use it.'

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

Years ago I was the proud owner of a mk 2 Cortina, which I found to be very reliable its only downside whilst I owned it was the inevitable rust problem around the macpherson strut mountings, however I digress it had the ability to generate large amounts of static electricity that would discharge through me when I got out and was standing on the ground and grasped the door handle to close the door. These discharges would produce an audible crack as they contacted my fingers, I became very wary of these shocks as they really stung and devised a method of avoiding them, I would use the ignition key held in my fingers to touch the door handle and discharge the static via the metal of the key. This was spectacular when performed in the dark as there would be a hefty blue spark jump from the door handle to the key accompanied by a loud crack. Since the Cortina I have owned many different cars and have received static shocks on only a handful of occasions with different cars so the Cortina definitely had a serious problem with generating static, on the good side I never felt travel sick in the Cortina, just fearful of getting out.

Dave W

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

Years ago I was the proud owner of a mk 2 Cortina, which I found to be very reliable its only downside whilst I owned it was the inevitable rust problem around the macpherson strut mountings, however I digress it had the ability to generate large amounts of static electricity that would discharge through me when I got out and was standing on the ground and grasped the door handle to close the door. These discharges would produce an audible crack as they contacted my fingers, I became very wary of these shocks as they really stung and devised a method of avoiding them, I would use the ignition key held in my fingers to touch the door handle and discharge the static via the metal of the key. This was spectacular when performed in the dark as there would be a hefty blue spark jump from the door handle to the key accompanied by a loud crack. Since the Cortina I have owned many different cars and have received static shocks on only a handful of occasions with different cars so the Cortina definitely had a serious problem with generating static, on the good side I never felt travel sick in the Cortina, just fearful of getting out.

Dave W

[BC ProfParticipant @bcprof]

The static charge was probably as a result of friction between the seat material and your clothing.

Brain C

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