Amadeal XJ300 miller T slots

[WolfieParticipant @wolfie]

Plastic gear wheels???????? Surely not

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

Its Chinese Wolfie, of course they are plastic gears.

Everything I have picked up this Xmas has been made in china!

One of the modifications is to replace with metal gears as quoted earlier.

I think there is also a mod. using a toothed belt and cogs.

This is why it pays to research your choice of machine when buying.

 

Clive

[WolfieParticipant @wolfie]

Looks like I’m about to do a crash course in making gear wheels

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Posted by David Clark 1 on 03/01/2012 18:23:59:

Hi Terry

We are not available all day every day to deal with problems on the forum.

I have not received any notification from you.

regards David

 

Hi David,

 

I clicked on the ‘Report’ Tab to report a problem with the message by David Haynes, I assumed that you would receive that message, I did not email you, sorry if you didn’t.   I’m not blaming you or anyone specifically, but most forums have a number of member moderators who will deal with problems quickly. I also assumed that there would be a technical bod somewhere who had some monitoring role.

 

Happy new year]

 

Terry

Edited By Terryd on 03/01/2012 21:04:45

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi Terry

No idea who the report goes to.

Not in the admin section that I can see.

regards David

 

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

Well, you could make them, but….

 

You will need to make a total of four, that’s two on the main shaft and two on the intermediate shaft. Plus each gear will require an internal keyway cutting. And then there will be either two spacers to make, or you cut each pair of gears out of one blank. Or for just under £26 you buy them ready made. Oh, and don’t forget they are different teeth numbers so no bright ideas about one blank cut in two!

 

Now if you are an expert machinist…..

 

Which I am not….

 

So I have a set in stock ready for when I next break the plastic gears.

 

Incidently, there is a lot of info on the internet about the X2 and it’s clones. Be aware that although the Warco MiniMill, and, I think, the Amadeal one, could be described as clones, there are some subtle differences. Hence one does need to be careful about mods to this machine. For instance, there is a gas strut mod available from Little Machine Shop which includes an extended rack, but, there are doubts as to whether or not it is suitable for this variant. By all means have a read, and a look, but just keep a wary eye open.

 

Regards,

 

Peter G. Shaw

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Posted by Wolfie on 03/01/2012 20:01:41:

Plastic gear wheels???????? Surely not

 

 

Hi Wolfie,

 

Plastic gears are not really a problem, they are often used as a ‘fail-safe’ device so that in the event of a lock up (cock up?) some major component is not damaged. There are also such things as ‘shear pins’ usually built into mechanisms which will fail easily to protect some other valuable components. We used to build such devices into all of our systems.  Don’t forget that Myford and Boxford and many other ‘reputable’ manufacturers used Tufnol resin gears in the drive trains for that very reason, the concept is not new, it’s only surprising to inexperienced ‘engineers’.

 

What would you rather have fail, a cheap, easily replaceable gear or an expensive motor? Those who replace them with metal gears etc could find expensive repair bills up the line (and often do).

 

Terry.

Edited By Terryd on 03/01/2012 21:09:26

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

Terry,

 

I don’t think these are Tufnol resin. I think they are moulded plastic which do literally break at the drop of a hat. There are indeed many, many reports of plastic gear breakages. As indeed there are many people who have gone down the belt drive route. I would suggest that for the X2 and it’s clones, this is a major failing.

 

Having said that, it’s something I had never considered, ie that it could be a safety device.

 

It’s also interesting that in my case the original gears as supplied by the factory lasted less than a month, whilst the replacement plastic gears are still going strong some considerable time later. Maybe the replacement ones are stronger.

 

Regards,

 

Peter G. Shaw

 

ps. On my machine, it was anything but easy to change them. In fact, changing the motor would be a darned sight quicker but only because it is bolted on top of the head and the three wires are relatively easy to disconnect.

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

I got started by buying some cheap imperial FC3 cutters with 1/4″ shanks and drilling and d-bit finishing a 1/4″ hole in the end of a blank MT3 taper, and adding a cross dirlled and tapped hole for a grub screw.

 

My Arc Seig-X2 had a ‘secret’ modification that none of the other suppliers did. Ketan wouldn’t say what it was, only that it was ‘inside’. He lost faith in the X2 and now sells an uprated version.

 

I suspect my machine (one of the first batch)  was modified by fitting steel gears. Why? Well for the first half hour of running it in it shrieked like a banshee, now it’s quiet, and despite much abuse (such as starting it with a locking pin in the spindle lock hole) I haven’t managed to strip a tooth (yet).

 

Neil

Edited By Stub Mandrel on 03/01/2012 22:01:08

[John ThorneParticipant @johnthorne49048]

Hi

I bought a AMA25LV mill from Amadeal last year with MT3 taper and I am really pleased with it. Good service from friendly people. I already had ER32 collets and a MT3 taper shank holder. So far this all I have needed to use for milling, drilling and taping. The only other tool I have used in the mill is a 2 ins boring head No Problems so far.

John

[David HaynesParticipant @davidhaynes53962]

I received a letter yesterday from a dear uncle who has a professional engineering background, in which he commented on my research for a mill. Although he is a prolific wood machinist, some things resonated with metal milling. He felt that importance of weight and rigidity was more relevant if taking deep cuts, expected more in commercial than hobby work. This applies equally to plastic gears; if we go in hoping to take 1/2″ cuts each time then the thing will shear gears! Before the gears shear, the machine will surely be making complaining sounds and I suppose part of our skill is to not be too heavy. Arc Euro sells gears that may suit X2 similar machine at Old X2 Mill Spares but you can also get a Belt Drive Kit if later on you want to do so. Short links!  Time to give my wee lassy her breakfast!

Dave

Edited By David Haynes on 04/01/2012 06:50:40

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Posted by Peter G. Shaw on 03/01/2012 21:30:34:

Terry,

 

I don’t think these are Tufnol resin. I think they are moulded plastic which do literally break at the drop of a hat. There are indeed many, many reports of plastic gear breakages. As indeed there are many people who have gone down the belt drive route. I would suggest that for the X2 and it’s clones, this is a major failing…………………………

…………..Peter G. Shaw

 

ps. On my machine, it was anything but easy to change them. In fact, changing the motor would be a darned sight quicker but only because it is bolted on top of the head and the three wires are relatively easy to disconnect.

 

Hi Peter,

 

I didn’t say that the gears on the X2 should be plastic, I was referring to generally using sacrificial parts to ensure vital parts were not damaged in the event of a problem occurring in a drivetrain, in answer to Wolfie’s cry of anguish.

 

Properly designed and moulded nylon gears can be remarkably strong and resilient. Lets face it Tufnol is simply a brittle resin, reinforced with fabric. I have even seen large leather gears used for machinery which have lasted for many years. I’ve just remembered this website. As they say their gears “quieten the drivetrain while protecting metal gears“.

 

Vee belt drives are often used as slippage is one of their characteristics if problems occur, that’s why they should not be too tight and certainly not replaced with toothed belts as some do. These latter are only needed when accurate timing is needed. Engineers have used many materials and devised many techniques over the centuries not just metals.

 

Just a question for you. Which is more expensive, a stripped gear or a motor?

 

Best regards

 

Terry

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Posted by Wolfie on 03/01/2012 20:01:41:
Plastic gear wheels???????? Surely not

 

 

Hi Wolfie,

 

Look here and here. Not everything has to be metal.  Re leather gears, from the website:

 

“Applications include punch presses, forging hammers, turning drums for tanneries, cable winches in mining operations, merry-go-rounds and hundreds of other applications” 

 

Not exactly lightweight applications

 

Best Regards

 

Terry

Edited By Terryd on 04/01/2012 09:36:44

[WolfieParticipant @wolfie]

My cry of anguish? more of disbelief. What the hell has happened to decent manufacturing these days.

 

OK I can see the value of having a gear go before a motor, but not so much that it will go with little provocation.

 

I can get lengths of nylon, would that be better for replacement gears?

 

OK I understand a spare set is not expensive, but I’ve never cut a gear so it would be a good new thing to do

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Posted by Wolfie on 04/01/2012 09:30:18:

My cry of anguish? more of disbelief. What the hell has happened to decent manufacturing these days.

Hi Wolfie,

 

I was using poetic licence, sorry.

 

Nylon on it’s own is of little use, in industrial gear applications it is glass filled. There is nothing wrong with manufacturing these days, it is better than ever, just compare cars or aircraft or televisions etc etc of today with those of thirty years ago. Using Nylon (plastic) gears is perfectly acceptable even in quite high loading situations. They have the advantage of less wear, are much quieter and are self lubricating as well as the sacrificial function.

 

I don’t know if you have bothered to look at the websites I highlighted but if you do a little research you will find many surprises in engineering. After all before Brunel people would have given a cry of disbelief, “metal Ships – ??????? – impossible they’ll sink”.  When Priestly demonstrated his electric motor at the Royal Academy, he was asked by an observer, “but what use is it Mr Priestly” – his reply – “what use is a baby.”

 

Best regards, keep researching the vast subject of engineering,

 

Terry

Edited By Terryd on 04/01/2012 09:52:04

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Posted by David Clark 1 on 03/01/2012 21:00:07:

Hi Terry

No idea who the report goes to.

Not in the admin section that I can see.

regards David

 

Hi David,

 

So it is of no use to use the ‘Report’ button on a message, to make a report? I think that I would be having a word with whoever is responsible for Systems Admin at your company.

 

Best regards and wishes for a happy and (another) successful new year,

 

Terry

 

Edited By Terryd on 04/01/2012 10:14:22

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi Terry

I think the report post button works as there were two reported posts.

Yours was not one of them.

regards David

 

 

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

There are issues with the report button, I know when I click it the cursor just blinks near the top of the page, it used to open a window that allowed you to give details of why the post was being reported if I remember right, may be a browser issue, I’m on IE & Vista

 

J

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

Terry,

 

I was actually trying say, but not very successfully, that in my opinion, the original gears on my MiniMill are the cheapest of cheap rubbishy plastic with little or no strength in them. When I broke mine, it was after less than a months light use. And I was well aware of the proclivity (is that a correct word?) of these machines to break gears, so I was being careful.

 

The other known problem with X2 machines is, or perhaps was, the failure rate of the electronic boards, but as the MiniMill, and the XJ300-12 uses a 550Watt motor as against the 300Watt of the X2, I reasoned that the electronics board must surely have been uprated as well. Since then, it has become apparent that yes, different boards are being used, hence this may no longer be a problem.

 

Obviously there are plastic gears, and there are plastic gears such as used by the Hobbymat, although I suspect the Hobbymat “plastic” gears are anything but cheap nasty “plastic”.

 

And yes, it’s obviously cheaper, if you discount labour charges, to change the gears rather than the motor. I actually found it quite difficult to dismantle my machine – it involved the use bricks, heavy hammers, engineering language plus “well, I’ve got so far, I might as well carry on”! Reassembly wasn’t that easy either. Funnily enough, my friends machine, same model from the same company, was a lot easier, which perhaps suggests tolerances. Certainly I noted that his spindle bearings came apart easily whereas mine did not.

 

Noise, especially with steel gears, will be a problem – which is why I now wear ear defenders when using my mill.

 

Regards,

 

Peter G. Shaw

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

That noise is why I think my X2 was ‘prepared’. The noise level is acceptable now.

 

The lathe, with plastic (glass filled nylon, I think) gears now >12 years old is essentially silent.

 

Neil

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Posted by David Clark 1 on 04/01/2012 10:16:22:

Hi Terry

I think the report post button works as there were two reported posts.

Yours was not one of them.

regards David

 

 

Hi David,

 

After I clicked on the button and made my report, the button changed to ‘Reported’ and would not allow me to click on it again, so how come two reports were received? I will try again with your post and you can let me know the result just as a test

 

Terry

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Hi Guys,

 

I have just done a test report on David’s message above, could anyone spot if the ”Report’ button at the bottom RH of his post has changed? David could you check if there has been a message?

 

Just need to know how this ‘system’ works, as a Software Engineer it seems beyond me!

 

Terry

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Posted by Peter G. Shaw on 04/01/2012 12:03:38:

Terry,

 

I was actually trying say, but not very successfully, that in my opinion, the original gears on my MiniMill are the cheapest of cheap rubbishy plastic with little or no strength in them………………………….

 

Regards,

 

Peter G. Shaw

Hi Peter,

 

I was not trying to say that the plastic in your particular machine was good or bad, merely trying to point out to some perhaps less experienced members that actually, some plastics, as well as other materials are quite good engineering materials. I was not making an observation on your particular machine.

 

By the way, I should point that my comments about metal boats was about Brunel’s first boat, not the first metal boat which was of course launched by Mr J Wilkinson in the 1780s as a canal barge in Broseley. (The site of his Bradley ironworks was about 1 mile from my first home as a child so I should know!)

 

Best regards

 

Terry

Edited By Terryd on 05/01/2012 21:40:14

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi Terry

The two reported posts were not from you.

regards David

 

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi Terry

It worked this time.

However, I rarely go into the admin section so could be days before I see it.

regards David

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