Aircraft General Discussion

[Flying FiferParticipant @flyingfifer]

The Mk 1 was a bit of a killer but the Mk 2 was a great improvement primarily because of the frangible hatch modification.

Have a look at http://www.seavixen.org This is a site dedicated to all those who lost their lives flying Vixen`s. My dear wife was called as a witness to one of the accidents listed & I was involved in the unsuccessful search for the crew.

Alan.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Yes it was John Derry who was killed in the crash of the DH-110. I was looking at another forum that I frequent, RNZAF Proboards, Wings over New Zealand, and there is a bit today about a DH 82A Tigermoth crashing at a smaller airshow in the UK, one spectator injured. Ian S C

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

Yes it was the late John Derry, killed at Farnborough, I was there the day before it happened, a near miss for me, as I always was to found near what turned out to be the impact area during the show with cycle chained to one of the Loudspeaker towers.

I later purchased a racing bicycle, answering an advert, to my surprise the previous owner had died that day at Farnborough. I still have it.

Edited By KWIL on 06/06/2016 12:26:29

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

There was an air accident at a show at Brimpton noted in the "Wings over New Zealand" forum that I frequent, It was Tigermoth G-ANMY/DE-470, one spectator was injured. At the same show a SportCruiser took off with its canopy unlatched, and on return to the strip made a heavy landing damaging the undercarriage. It was only the Tiger that got the press excited. Ian S C

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

Tigermoth struck a car, shards from broken wooden propellor apparently caused the injuries, The Moth did not look too happy either.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

If you go to rnzaf.proboards.com And look under foreign aircraft/preservation, there are some good photos of the Tiger straight after the prang. Ian   if that wont work, google it

Edited By Ian S C on 07/06/2016 14:04:13

[Martin 100Participant @martin100]

Posted by martin perman on 05/06/2016 21:22:36:

did you know that Airbus take two weeks to build an A380.

One might emerge from the end of the production line every two weeks but that is clearly not the time to build.

It's like a car coming off the line every 90 seconds, but it actually takes say 1000 operations each of 90 seconds duration to that point at the assembly plant, 90000 seconds, or circa 24 hours from the very first components being assembled, with considerable manufacturing time 'offsite' for the thousands of components bought in ready for assembly, be it engine blocks, nut, bolts, ECU's, dash mouldings, seats, airbags etc.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Posted by Flying Fifer on 06/06/2016 11:04:02:

The Mk 1 was a bit of a killer but the Mk 2 was a great improvement primarily because of the frangible hatch modification.

Just read a book on UK aircraft industry in the 50's. Author claimed that HMG couldn't understand that there wasn't enough work available to keep about 13 different companies in business, so let contracts to each one in turn, hence far too much variety and not enough development on any one design. Better to have selected a couple to keep in business and let the others go to the wall.

Same thing happend to steam turbines when they wouldn't let GEC and Parsons merge after the great power station bulding spree of the 50's and 60's

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

Martin,

Re; Airbus 380, I did write build not make and having worked in several  car plants installing robots to build them I'm also aware of how long it takes to assemble a car using the just in time method

 

Martin P

Edited By martin perman on 07/06/2016 18:59:28

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

I really must stay up one night to watch the A380 wings come in by road – It must be quite a feat as the route passes thro some small villages.

[Sam StonesParticipant @samstones42903]

SB5 wrote:

I really must stay up one night to watch the A380 wings come in by road – It must be quite a feat as the route passes thro some small villages.

I reckon the Yanks would simply fly them in, shuttle fashion. Or maybe get extra lift by strapping them crosswise.

Sam

[korbyParticipant @korby]

When I left school in 1961 was very lucky to get an electronic apprenticeship with De Havilland they took on at least a hundred apprentices every year in many disciplines. The part I worked for was producing heat seeking missiles to shoot down Russian bombers in the event of nuclear war. We all expected to die in a nuclear war in those days. The first six months we got full time training in bench fitting sheet metal work machine tools and technical drawing and even a bit of oxy acetaline welding. Training that was to set me up for the rest of my life

We used to get one day a week at college and the rest in various sections working on electronics

I did hear from senior people that the DH 110 that John Derry flew was a development hack hundreds of hours beyond its design life. To give the crowds a thrill he pushed it too hard it suffered structual failure with tragic results

The resources at DH and the skill of their work force were exceptional in every way, now sadly all gone I believe the airfield is now a housing estate.

Best days of my life.

JK

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Posted by Sam Stones on 07/06/2016 19:51:51:

SB5 wrote:

I really must stay up one night to watch the A380 wings come in by road – It must be quite a feat as the route passes thro some small villages.

I reckon the Yanks would simply fly them in, shuttle fashion. Or maybe get extra lift by strapping them crosswise.

Sam

friend of mine works at Broughton where they make Airbus wings. I've asked him to suggest they make a convertible biplane, one set of wings coming here from Toulouse, 2 sets going back. Now that would be neat, a jet biplane! Especially when transporting A380 wings, but they do that by sea at present I think.

[Sam StonesParticipant @samstones42903]

As I understand it from an excellent program screened on TV Down-Under, after their `completion', the wings are loaded onto a barge; sail up the River Dee; transferred onto a ship; shipped down and into the Bay of Biscay; then transported by road to the assembly plant.

See link – **LINK**

[Anonymous]

A question has been raised regarding pilot licencing in the aftermath of Brexit. The short answer is that along with everybody else I have no idea what is going to happen.

I suspect that there are two questions; one to do with power flying, and one to do with gliding.

In the UK power flying is adminstered by the Civil Aviation Authority, ie, the government. The situation is slightly messy in that to fly a light aeroplane there are three licenses, PPL(A), LAPL(A) and NPPL. Each has different privileges and medical requirements. Roughly speaking the PPL is recognised world-wide, the LAPL is Europe only and the NPPL is UK only and limited to non-EASA aircraft, and some vintage aircraft. The boundaries are blurred, but they have been for decades. My gut feeling is that not much is going to change; even for the most anally retentive politician these matters are below the horizon. Also, the rationalisation of licencing is world-wide, not just European.

My EU medical is as near as darn it the same as the CAA one, except I need an ECG every two years instead of every year. The EU PPL is similar to my CAA one, except that I now have a 'Sailplane Towing Rating' which didn't exist before. The upshot of that is that you now need training to be a tug pilot. Unlike my case where I was told there's the tug, there's the glider, get in and get on with it, no dual tows, nothing!

For gliding the situation is very different. Unlike the rest of Europe in the UK gliding is administered by the British Gliding Association, so no state issued licenses and no state control. Airworthiness is separate; most modern gliders fall under EASA, and I suspect this will remain so. In principle the EASA regime is a good one, as it has tightened up on things like documentation and ADs. The main problem is one of degree; we need an EASA-lite regime suited to gliders and not a cover-all from private gliders to commercial 747s.

We were on track to have EASA sailplane licences by April 2016. As always the situation is messy, as there were several licences available, including a LAPL(S) and SPL(S). For the UK this was onerous, as we needed to obtain aerobatics ratings and cloud flying ratings, neither of which were needed before. In theory this goes against the EU rules as they are not supposed to do anything that removes rights people already have. Of course it is complicated as I think (?) the UK is only country in the world where we are allowed to fly sailplanes in cloud, let alone with no qualifications!

It was clear that the issue of EASA sailplane ratings was a mess, and the introduction across Europe was postponed until at least 2017. What happens then is anybody's guess. I was reading the European Gliding Union newsletter yesterday, and it is clear that across Europe the introduction of EASA licences in 2017 is way too soon. There are many unaswered questions and things that have not been thought through. My guess is that it will be deferred again.

The introduction of the new ratings caused many anomalies. For instance an instructor without a basic aerobatics rating could demonstrate a spin to a pupil in a two seater, and supervise the pupils' attempts at entry and recovery. But they couldn't legally spin their own single seater; go figure!

That's enough of that, time to do something useful in the greenhouse and garden.

Andrew

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Any major changes will be at least a couple of years down the track, an opportunity for the "EXPERTS" flying desks to utterly screw up the works, they also have the opportunity of streamlining the regs and getting it right. My fingers crossed for all the flying types UK. That's if as I said in another thread, the Gov't doesn't chicken out, and desides to stay after all. Ian S C

[stewart woodParticipant @stewartwood82335]

Hi, just came on here to idle my time away , know I should be doing something more productive but!!! saw your thread and thought Aircraft , interesting , But I must have missed something some where ,it feels like I have only halve the story ,or should I have looked some where else for the start of the thread Stewart

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

This thread is a hoch poch of aviation subjects that come up every now and then. Hi Stewart, no you have not missed much, Andrew mentioned something of his flying(glider tug pilot) and I mentioned something about licence changes post leaving EU, so the entry before mine explains what he knows of the situation. 

Ian S C   Here's one from my past in aviation, Cessna 185B with full agricultural gear.

 

 

Edited By Ian S C on 04/07/2016 16:17:13

[stewart woodParticipant @stewartwood82335]

Thanks for that Ian ,now I know ! .Like the plane , sounds and looks like like you have had some fun . I have flown in a small plane a long time ago . For work and holidays the usual jets. I love all things mechanical and still get a thrill whilst tacking off, even in the USUAL JETS . I can't help finding it amazing how all that weight gets off the ground and into the air . The nearest I have got to actually piloting a plane , is a couple model planes I have built , Thought about hang gliding ,a few years ago , but too long in the tooth for that now. Just got my Drummond lathe running and enjoying that , Just a thought ,I can remember welding old Minis to keep them on the road (MOT etc ) and not being able to wait to get at it after Christmas holidays were done .That's having fun . Stewart

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

Many, many years ago at the age of 18/19 I was fortunate to be sponsored by the RAF via the ATC to learn to fly and then solo in Gliders, specifically the Slingsby T31 and the T21 Sedburg, Tug, and what an experience that was, unfortunately when at the age of 21, when I left the ATC, I couldn't afford to join a club to keep the license on apprentice wages but over the years when the opportunity has arisen I have enjoyed a ride in an aircraft and so far I can list over 30+ types including Military, airliners, Gliders and light aircraft.

One way to get a ride in a glider would be to go to a local club, usually on a Sunday and sit in your car and watch and usually as the day progressed I would get asked if I was interested in helping move a few gliders and they would offer a trip as a thank you, my first air tow came this way.

I used to spend my time at various airfields plane spotting, particularly Military, we would visit RAF/USAF airfields particularly ones with gate guardians and ask if we could take pictures and usually the answer was yes, on one of our trips out friends and I went to Woodbridge and Bentwaters in Suffolk to catch a few Warthog A10's particularly as there was an Air National Guard unit from America on exercise, at the back of the Airbase was a wood where we could see the A10's and with our binoculars and camera's we took the numbers of everything in view until my two mates decided they wanted a couple of unreadables so one of them climbed up on the others shoulders and was holding onto the fence when two soldiers appeared with their rifles at the ready, they wanted to know what we were up to and when they were happy one took our notebook and went off to get the numbers of the ones we couldn't read whilst the other one chatted to us.

Whilst in the ATC and then an Aviation Club I got to visit many Airfields, the highlights were crawling over a SR71 Blackbird at Mildenhall, looking over Super Sabres and F111's at Lakenheath, watching a test firing of an A10's Gatling gun and visiting RAF Honnington to look over the Buccaneers.

One of the biggest highlights came via a millwright where I worked, he was one of those that if you had a paddling pool he had a swimming pool, one day he suggested that he could arrange a visit to the crash investigation unit at Farnborough which I treated with a pinch of salt but it turned out that his Brother in Law ran the unit and a visit was duly arranged, it was a most fascinating day being shown around the crashed aircraft and being shown how they deduced what happened and also how they retrieved info from the black (orange) boxes.

Martin P

Edited By martin perman on 04/07/2016 22:31:40

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

This is the workshop just after our new hanger was built at Dunedin airport, My work was on the ground, same plane a few weeks later, I did the engine overhaul.

[Danny M2ZParticipant @dannym2z]

When I was a bit younger, my model aircraft club visited a RAAF base.

In exchange for giving the RAAF people some basic instruction on r/c models I was invited to have a flight in a glider (I think that it was a Kookaburra).

The launch was towed by a Holden ute, painted in black and yellow chequers with a jerrycan of petrol on the roof as apparently the fuel pump had packed up. The fuel filter was just in front of the windscreen.

A wonderful adventure and I only was told to input more rudder on turns.

Sweet memories

* Danny M *

Edited By Danny M2Z on 05/07/2016 08:13:38

Edited By Danny M2Z on 05/07/2016 08:16:01

[robjon44Participant @robjon44]

Hi guys, last week I was on a mission in North Yorkshire in the campervan, there had been a certain amount of aerial activity involving large american jet fighters during the week, however one day the missus came back from walking the dog about teatime & said she had seen a strange aircraft that she took to be a drone & that it was very noisy, the doors where open & I hadn't heard anything so I asked shape, size, number of engines etc etc no joy. The following evening however I was outside around the same time when I heard something approaching very very loud & fast, it passed only about 200 yards away & I identified it in the same instant that my jaw hit the ground, V22 OSPREY, was then treated to a demonstration of what they were designed for including one screaming turn where all underneath detail was on display, unfortunately camera was stashed away so no pictures but looked it up when we got home, a cross between an aeroplane & a helicopter, vertical take & landing, high speed flight, large UK input, engines by RR, transmission & many other airframe parts by BAe, never thought I would see one in all my life!

[Mike LightfootParticipant @mikelightfoot72419]

I am sure I read somewhere that the UK has just bought some for the special forces, if anyone knows different? When I was working in London recently during the US presidents visit we saw a couple flying escort on his helicopter

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

Robjon44,

 

The Osprey's are based at the American Airbase RAF Mildenhall and here is a link about the SAS using them http://www.eliteukforces.info/uk-military-news/05042016-osprey-special-forces.php.

 

Martin P

Edited By martin perman on 05/07/2016 20:26:08

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