ACME thread identification question.

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ACME thread identification question.

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  • #428986
    old mart
    Participant
      @oldmart

      Thread rolling is a specialised process, which most firms would sub out to the experts.

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      #428988
      Michael Gilligan
      Participant
        @michaelgilligan61133
        Posted by S.D.L. on 14/09/2019 16:52:51:

        Halifax Rack and Screw make precision leadscrews, Used to serve the machine tool industry.

        I know they will also make Ba$tard sizes as where I work they used to make us a 16mm x metric pitch ACME in stainless steel.

        .

        Perhaps you could explain then, Steve [please]

        Why would anyone choose to specify 16mm x some metric pitch in ACME form rather than Metric Trapezoidal ?

        [my brain hurts] … Is it just to make it difficult for customers to second-source spares ?

        MichaelG.

        #428991
        Michael Gilligan
        Participant
          @michaelgilligan61133
          Posted by old mart on 14/09/2019 18:58:08:

          Thread rolling is a specialised process, which most firms would sub out to the experts.

          .

          But why would those experts want to roll an ACME thread-form to Metric dimensions.

          True ACME is [to the best of my knowledge] exclusively specified in Imperial units.

          … If I am wrong; would someone please tell me

          MichaelG.

          #429001
          Pete Rimmer
          Participant
            @peterimmer30576

            ACME is standardised in imperial units but the form can be used for metric leads. If you were cutting the thread to a metric lead you'd have to convert the lead to inch pitch then grind the tool nose width appropriately. However, if you were rolling that metric thread you'd have to have a non-standard set of rolls manufactured.

            Since the vast majority of the early Boxfords were inch screws I wonder if they had the metric threads cut but the inch ones rolled for cost purposes?

            #429011
            Michael Gilligan
            Participant
              @michaelgilligan61133
              Posted by Pete Rimmer on 14/09/2019 20:32:26:

              ACME is standardised in imperial units but the form can be used for metric leads. If you were cutting the thread to a metric lead you'd have to convert the lead to inch pitch then grind the tool nose width appropriately. However, if you were rolling that metric thread you'd have to have a non-standard set of rolls manufactured.

              Since the vast majority of the early Boxfords were inch screws I wonder if they had the metric threads cut but the inch ones rolled for cost purposes?

              .

              < my emboldening >

              .

              That's what I was wondering, Pete

              … hence my hope that someone might know for sure how the metric screws were made.

              MichaelG.

              Edited By Michael Gilligan on 14/09/2019 21:20:37

              #429013
              Pete Rimmer
              Participant
                @peterimmer30576

                I guess you'd need to find an ex-employee from the factory for that, or a drawing.

                BTW I had an Denford TDS1 and the cross slide thread on that was clearly cut (or at least finished) with a die. The marks where the die stopped were plain to see.

                #429015
                S.D.L.
                Participant
                  @s-d-l
                  Posted by Michael Gilligan on 14/09/2019 19:01:53:

                  Posted by S.D.L. on 14/09/2019 16:52:51:

                  Halifax Rack and Screw make precision leadscrews, Used to serve the machine tool industry.

                  I know they will also make Ba$tard sizes as where I work they used to make us a 16mm x metric pitch ACME in stainless steel.

                  .

                  Perhaps you could explain then, Steve [please]

                  Why would anyone choose to specify 16mm x some metric pitch in ACME form rather than Metric Trapezoidal ?

                  [my brain hurts] … Is it just to make it difficult for customers to second-source spares ?

                  MichaelG.

                  I always put it down to one of my predecessors being stupid. I was never able to find out why but my guess was they didn’t know about trapezoidal.

                  Sometimes things conspire against you I designed a pneumatic cylinder 150mm Diameter with a screw on end, It was supposed to be 150mm x 2mm or something similar, had been told we had got the internal and external tips, but we hadn’t got the Internal so it was done 150mm x 12 TPI Whit. I calculated the dimension for 3 wire on the external thread and we made that fist then did the internal thread to fit.

                  In most of these cases its ignorance or expedience.

                  Steve

                  #429016
                  S.D.L.
                  Participant
                    @s-d-l
                    Posted by Pete Rimmer on 14/09/2019 21:44:44:

                    I guess you'd need to find an ex-employee from the factory for that, or a drawing.

                    BTW I had an Denford TDS1 and the cross slide thread on that was clearly cut (or at least finished) with a die. The marks where the die stopped were plain to see.

                    How are you sure it was a die? Threads cut with an Anjest attachment have a run out like a die as do modern CNC threads no need for an undercut with either.

                    Steve

                    #429017
                    Michael Gilligan
                    Participant
                      @michaelgilligan61133

                      "In most of these cases its ignorance or expedience."

                      smiley … nice summary, Steve.

                      MichaelG.

                      Edited By Michael Gilligan on 14/09/2019 22:07:13

                      #429018
                      S.D.L.
                      Participant
                        @s-d-l
                        Posted by Michael Gilligan on 14/09/2019 19:07:15:

                        Posted by old mart on 14/09/2019 18:58:08:

                        Thread rolling is a specialised process, which most firms would sub out to the experts.

                        .

                        But why would those experts want to roll an ACME thread-form to Metric dimensions.

                        True ACME is [to the best of my knowledge] exclusively specified in Imperial units.

                        … If I am wrong; would someone please tell me

                        MichaelG.

                        A lot of leadscrews are cut by thread wirling, The most accurate are ground.

                        Steve

                        #429019
                        Michael Gilligan
                        Participant
                          @michaelgilligan61133
                          Posted by S.D.L. on 14/09/2019 22:09:11:

                          A lot of leadscrews are cut by thread wirling, The most accurate are ground.

                          .

                          Yes, Steve : But the Boxford drawing that Pete posted explicitly states 'Plunge Roll'

                          MichaelG.

                          #429020
                          S.D.L.
                          Participant
                            @s-d-l
                            Posted by Michael Gilligan on 14/09/2019 22:29:53:

                            Posted by S.D.L. on 14/09/2019 22:09:11:

                            A lot of leadscrews are cut by thread wirling, The most accurate are ground.

                            .

                            Yes, Steve : But the Boxford drawing that Pete posted explicitly states 'Plunge Roll'

                            MichaelG.

                            Yes but that’s for imperial ACME, they may have done the metric by another method?

                            Steve

                            #429021
                            Michael Gilligan
                            Participant
                              @michaelgilligan61133

                              Indeed, Steve yes

                              That's why I've been banging-on about wanting to know how it was made.

                              It's of no relevance to me personally … just an interesting puzzle.

                              MichaelG.

                              #429024
                              Pete Rimmer
                              Participant
                                @peterimmer30576
                                Posted by S.D.L. on 14/09/2019 22:04:13:

                                Posted by Pete Rimmer on 14/09/2019 21:44:44:

                                I guess you'd need to find an ex-employee from the factory for that, or a drawing.

                                BTW I had an Denford TDS1 and the cross slide thread on that was clearly cut (or at least finished) with a die. The marks where the die stopped were plain to see.

                                How are you sure it was a die? Threads cut with an Anjest attachment have a run out like a die as do modern CNC threads no need for an undercut with either.

                                Steve

                                I'm not sure, just how it appeared to me. I figured if it was done with an auto knock-off device then the marks would be right at the end of the thread. This appeared to be cut further along then finished slightly short of the end. I only mention it as a matter of interest really.

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