A very small Shaping Machine …

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Bazyle,

I agree that the Adept No.1 is about the right size, but … unless they are more accurate than appearances suggest, I doubt it would satisfy my requirements.

This is, I think, an excellent example of the compromises that have to be made if one designs a small shaper that is capable of working Iron. … As per my remark in reply to Neil.

Note: I am pondering the use of a Ball Slide [or a Crossed Roller Slide] for the ram.

… Happy to be proven wrong if I have mis-judged the Adept. !!!

MichaelG.

[Cornish JackParticipant @cornishjack]

Michael

As the basis for a 'one-off', might not a Pultra (or similar) lever cross slide be a possible starting point? Accuracy and quality are a 'given' and the castings are generally good. A similar, but lesser strength basis might be the Unimat SL.

If either of the above are of interest, I have a spare SL base and MIGHT have a Pultra lever slide.

PM if of interest.

Rgds

Bill

[dcostaParticipant @dcosta]

Hello Michael, good afternoon.

I have under construction (although at this time stopped because of a fire) one small shaping machine built basically following the book by David Gingery.
I fabricated it basically from solid aluminum and cold rolled steel. You can see photos in my **ALBUM** and a short **MOVIE**, two years old. I made the conversion from inches to millimeters and, if I remember it correctly, I reduced a few millimeters on the scale.
In my opinion it would not be difficult task to reduce the size and also mount a lever to manual.
And it would probably be cheaper than one made from casts.

Hope this helps

Dias Costa

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Bill,

Good thinking!

… I have sent a PM

MichaelG.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Dias,

Excellent photos in your album … Thank you.

Unfortunately, the Gingery machine is much bigger than I want … unless I scaled it down to [say] 1/5th.

Do you think it would be practical to scale-down your modified version to that extent?

I basically want a high precision Shaper, about the size of a Toaster.

MichaelG.

.

Edit: Sorry … I forgot to compliment you on the Movie.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 22/10/2013 17:02:36

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

hi Nobby,

i build miniature steam locos in 3.5" and 5"g, and i cant think of any situation where i want to create a 1" dia shape in steel 4" long. if i had to i would probably use a ball ended end mill, or would mill with a square edge then add isopon filler!

cheers,

julian

[Another JohnSParticipant @anotherjohns]

i build miniature steam locos in 3.5" and 5"g, and i cant think of any situation where i want to create a 1" dia shape in steel 4" long. if i had to i would probably use a ball ended end mill, or would mill with a square edge then add isopon filler!

Oh Julian;

That's cheating! No, I think you really need a shaper to slow you down.

Another JohnS.

[dcostaParticipant @dcosta]

Hello, MichaelG, good evening.

MG: Excellent in your photos.
DC: Thank you for your kind words.

MG: Unfortunately, the Gingery machine is much bigger than I want … unless I scaled it down to [say] 1/5th.
Do you think it would be practical to scale down your modified version to that extent?
I basically want a high precision Shaper, about the size of a Toaster.
DC: When I started building my shaper machine I never worked with one and did not know its working intricacies.

So then, after deciding to change some dimensions (do not remember which …), I followed this path:
1 – Because I didn't intend to use bicycle chain and sprocket-wheel for movement and instead use synchronized wheel and belt, I searched market for wheels and belt I needed to support the cutting effort.
2 – Insisted on reading the book by David Gingery until I have understood well the role played by different components.
3 – Realized which components should be the first to be manufactured knowing they will be structural constraints of the size of the remaining components.
4 – Fabricated the remaining components to fit the dimensions of the first components (see ref. 3).
5 – Did a temporary installation to test the movements using a small motor that I had and I liked the result.
That is the current situation.

This text continues in the next post…

Hope this helps

Dias Costa

Edited By dcosta on 23/10/2013 00:02:01

[dcostaParticipant @dcosta]

Hello, MichaelG, good evening.

This is the second and last parte of my text:

I think that a reduction to 1/5th is not possible. If we consider that the side panels of the structure of my shaper machine is 180mm wide and 280mm high, a reduction of 1/5th result in 36mm wide by 56mm high. I think the other components destined to suffer stress, even for brass or aluminium, for a so small size machine would have to be very small and will not support the cutting effort.
Also the resulting size (around 10mm) of the gap between the two panels where the rotary motion is converted into reciprocating motion would be of a size which would not fit the mechanics required.
I think, whatever the shaper machine you'll get, so that it produces high-precision surfaces as you want, it will benefit from a movement of very regular nature which, I think, only a system that uses wheels (with engine or hand crank) will produce.

MG: Sorry … I forgot to compliment you on the Movie.
DC: Do not worry. Thank you for your kind words.
Let me tell you that I have not had conditions to test the cutting capabilities of my shaper machine because the fire in my workshop. However you can look up some movies on Youtube by Mr. Rick Sparber. He built a shaper machine strictly following the book of Mr. Gingery and shows it on Youtube cutting some metal.
Mr. Rick Sparber helped me with important views in the construction of my shaping machine.

I would like to know that my poor mastery of the English language has allowed me to share with you my opinions.

Hope this helps

Dias Costa

Edited By dcosta on 23/10/2013 00:04:26

[Gone AwayParticipant @goneaway]

Michael, I don't think anyone has mentioned this but there is a construction article of a small, simple hand shaping machine in ME #2681 (Oct 9 1952). See pic. If you're interested and don't have that issue, PM me.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

OMG,

Thanks for posting that picture … it clearly shows the scale upon which I am hoping to work.

In fact the article was mentioned by Keith Long, on page1 of this thread; and there is a PDF of the article here.

If you have the subsequent issues of ME, could you please check something for me …

Was there any follow-up to the article, or PostBag discussion ?

Much appreciated.

MichaelG.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Dias,

Thank you for the additional information about your machine.

Your English is perfectly adequate, and I do appreciate your taking the trouble to describe what you have done.

The picture posted by OMG gives a good idea of the size of machine I want, and [as you mentioned] it would not be practical to scale-down the Gingery design.

MichaelG.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

It should not be too hard to make that little shaper, and make it right handed if required. Ian S C

[Keith LongParticipant @keithlong89920]

Michael

There doesn't appear to be any follow up article or discussion in letters of the shaper over the next 6-8 issues. You might find something in a search of the index, but it probably wouldn't be that easy to spot.

Keith

[Gone AwayParticipant @goneaway]

Nothing else turns up in Dias's database either (thanks again, Dias).

Sorry, Keith – I didn't catch your edit.

Edited By OMG on 23/10/2013 17:09:36

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Thanks to all, for your inputs

MichaelG.

[NobbyParticipant @nobby]

Hi Julian and Guys
Sorry about the delay . felting the garden tool shed . on a shaper when at work years ago I used to make 36" long
half round cavity's top and bottom . some up to about 2" dia. I made a fixture that fitted in the clapper box facing
forward similar to a boring head that rotated with a toolbit the clapper was locked when using this
I roughed out first with a straight roughing tool . then finished with the fixture i made the two halfs dowled together then sent away for final lapping . then fitted in bolster . It was a 3 imp compression mould for a railway item
I will try and post a drawing
Regards Nobby

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

I like that little shaper. putting the clapper box on a vertical slide saves a great deal of metal.

I have a bit of a dead vice that is almost exactly the size and section of the main horizontal; body…

Neil

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

Well I've been looking at a pile of medium sized chunks of cast iron scrap, 1/4" angle iron and even a spare topslide base for a mini lathe.

Conclusion there is more than enough to make a small shaper in there, but how would I fit all the bits together?

Neil

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by julian atkins on 22/10/2013 23:19:12:

… add isopon filler!

.

Neil,

See above .. from an earlier post on this thread

MichaelG.

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

… add isopon filler!

I used that to repair a space beam torch during the Korean riots of 1980 !

… or was it devcon…

I do remember it was hugely expensive…

[Edward BrightParticipant @edwardbright86070]

At the risk of bringing an American influence into the discussion, try these two references under Popular Mechanics magazine in Google Books:

Oct 1955 – Metal Shaper for Your Shop – pp227-231, an article about building a manual 3inch shaper by S.S. Miner

Nov 1928 – A 6 inch Bench Shaper – pp869-871 – a motor driven shaper by J.V. Romig

Edward

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

i have used a shaper – once. when at school i made a pattern for frame stays and cast a load of frame stays in the school foundry. i machined them up – if 'machined' is the right word in a shaper. i realised then at quite an early age ie 16 that there must be an easier way of doing things! i used a vertical slide in the lathe for very many years before acquiring my dore westbury mill 25 years ago. ive never used a shaper since i was 16 and have no intention of ever using one again, and everyone i know who has one proudly shows them off but never uses them!

completely obsolete!

glad the isopon amused a few of you!

cheers,

julian

[Another JohnSParticipant @anotherjohns]

completely obsolete!

But the "bees knees" for making safety tread (chequer plate) by knurling; have been trying to match some steel chequer plate that I picked up years ago, and everything seems to be aluminium (at least for the perfect gauge – 3-1/2&quot

Also, a hand shaper is a lot cheaper than a gym membership – get that and a treadle lathe, and a bunch of files (plus obligatory hacksaw) and you'll be the "Charles Atlas" of model engineering!

Anyway, there is a reason that they fell out of favour to milling machines in industry a century or so ago, so your comment is 100% correct, in my (shaper-loving) opinion.

Taking tongue out of cheek, and off to the workshop to find my diamond knurls – John.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Edward Bright on 24/10/2013 00:47:11:

At the risk of bringing an American influence into the discussion,

Edward

.

Thanks Edward,

… Nothing wrong with an American influence in such matters !!

Where would the world be if the Americans hadn't worked-out how to mass produce precision "standard parts" for watches and guns ?

MichaelG.

 

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 24/10/2013 16:55:55

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