Thread pitches on small parts.

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Thread pitches on small parts.

Home Forums Beginners questions Thread pitches on small parts.

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  • #242244
    Dave Smith the 16th
    Participant
      @davesmiththe16th

      I tried google but it just shows howto measure thread pitches which i know.

      But i need to check the thread pitch on a small part that measures 2.48mm diameter. Some of you may think thats huge and easily done but I am struggling to see how you do it accurately.

      I have thread gauges but at that small size it has me stumped. My gauges go low enough but its the reading of them that puzzles me.

      I marked the item and gave it 2 full turns, but only had the digital caliper to check it. It closed up by 0.78, divided by 2 turns = 0.39 so probably a 0.4 pitch? Wrong way of doing it?

      What do you use to accurately check that is correct?

      Thanks.

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      #8158
      Dave Smith the 16th
      Participant
        @davesmiththe16th
        #242246
        speelwerk
        Participant
          @speelwerk

          projecting microscope would be a good way to do. Niko.

          #242250
          Bazyle
          Participant
            @bazyle

            Try measuring over more threads and then decide if the context makes it more likely to be metric, imperial or BA. At the moment you seem to be mid way between M2.5 coarse and fine, and a bit off 7BA. Too thick for #2-56UNC or #2-64UNF and a #3-56UNF has got to be rather unusual.

            #242251
            Frances IoM
            Participant
              @francesiom58905

              if it’s connected with your seat motor wasn’t a Metric 2.5mm component mentioned – from diameter this sounds rather like a M2.5 thread wch should be 0.45mm (a M2.5 fine is 0.35 thread – a M2 would have 0.4 but not that diameter

              #242292
              Dave Smith the 16th
              Participant
                @davesmiththe16th

                Nope not connected with the seat motor, this is the shaft from a dial gauge. I 3D printed a holder to help level the printers bed but the plunger is not long enough. Silly me for not checking.

                Rather than try another design thats lower yet clears the drive belts i thought about extending the plunger instead.

                Checking more threads is difficult, only 3 turns to remove it. Can you rig up a projecting microscope quickly in blue peter fashion? Or would that me more stuff to order and another project onto my list?

                Its 2.4mm diameter not 2.48 that i put previously.. Not sure how i got that? If i keep rotating it then a low spot will give 2.38, but the rest is 2.4 Maybe i put 2.4 and then measured again and added the 8 on?

                So with the right information does that put me closer to anything?

                Thanks.

                #242296
                JasonB
                Moderator
                  @jasonb

                  Is it an old or new dial gauge as this would give some idea of what the thread may be, a new far eastern import is probably metric M2.5. An old English one probably 7BA or 8BA, Amereican will be UNC or UNF.

                  Is there any plain shanlk beyond the thread as that could also give a clue as it will eliminate any overcutting of the thread.

                  Edited By JasonB on 11/06/2016 07:34:38

                  #242313
                  not done it yet
                  Participant
                    @notdoneityet

                    Try your local CFE.  Most decent 'A' level, and above, science departments might have a travelling microscope which they would pull out of a cupboard – well, the one I worked at twenty years ago did.

                    Edited By not done it yet on 11/06/2016 10:50:02

                    #242343
                    Hopper
                    Participant
                      @hopper
                      Posted by Dave Smith the 16th on 11/06/2016 05:41:28:

                      Nope not connected with the seat motor, this is the shaft from a dial gauge.

                      YOu have the perfect instrument to mesure the pitch right there. Set the plunger shaft tip on a flat surface, with dial gauge suitably bolted down. Set dial to zero. Mark the shaft. Rotate shaft tip one turn so that the thread unscrews. Read the pitch off the dial gauge dial.

                      #242350
                      Dave Smith the 16th
                      Participant
                        @davesmiththe16th

                        Its a fairly new and cheapy gauge, Tool Zone one.

                        Local CFE? I contacted the Campaing for the Farmed Enviroment and they didnt know what i was talking about

                        CFE? College for Engineering? Do we have them these days? Wont that be dangerous for students? Electicity and moving machinery etc. Should that not be banned? My daughters school didnt have a metalwork room and the woodwork one only had hand tools.

                        Measure the pitch with the gauge, I will give that a try but dont hold your breath My answer maybe worse than the one i got with the digital calipers

                        Thanks.

                        #242363
                        Chris Shelton
                        Participant
                          @chrisshelton11794

                          I am also trying to do the same as you, but for a different reason, making an adaptor to set timing on a two stroke motor cycle engine.

                          I am getting same sort of readings as you i.e. 2.42 mm major thread diameter.

                          I have poor eye sight and not able to compare thread with a thread pitch gauge, even with the aid of an illuminated magnifier.

                          I have 7BA and 2.5mmx.45 taps and these do not fit the thread in the DTI shaft.

                           

                          Edited By Chris Shelton on 11/06/2016 17:11:38

                          #242365
                          Dave Smith the 16th
                          Participant
                            @davesmiththe16th

                            OK i set the gauge up and took a reading of 6.8mm, Unscrewed one turn and it showed 7.2mm.

                            0.4? Measured the thread diameter with the micrometer and its 2.42mm.

                            Do these tally?

                             

                            Thanks.

                            PS, just found my M2 0.4 taps and the shaft is too small, so 2.5 appears to be right.

                            Cannot be certain of the thread pitch but it appears right. Need a microscope..

                             

                            Edited By Dave Smith the 16th on 11/06/2016 17:41:01

                            #242368
                            Frances IoM
                            Participant
                              @francesiom58905

                              UNF fine #2 2.1844mm nom dia 0.3969mm (64tpi) thread – nom dia + half thread = pretty much what you have – made for North American market ?

                              Harold Halls book is cheap and has many useful tables saves hitting the Net when you have a workshop query (if only it could be printed on oil proof (or wipe clean) paper
                              also guess 1/64th inch very convenient measure!

                              Edited By Frances IoM on 11/06/2016 17:48:10

                              Edited By Frances IoM on 11/06/2016 17:51:23

                              #242371
                              Chris Shelton
                              Participant
                                @chrisshelton11794

                                p1000313.jpgThis is the offending article.p1000312.jpg

                                #242374
                                speelwerk
                                Participant
                                  @speelwerk

                                  I do not see the problem, why do you want to know the pitch with 3 digits behind the decimal for such a short thread, be practical, M 2.3 has a pitch 0.4 mm. Make the type you want and if it fits it fits. I have done the same for the one I have. Niko.

                                  #242376
                                  Michael Gilligan
                                  Participant
                                    @michaelgilligan61133
                                    Posted by Dave Smith the 16th on 11/06/2016 05:41:28:

                                    Checking more threads is difficult, only 3 turns to remove it. Can you rig up a projecting microscope quickly in blue peter fashion?

                                    .

                                    For this job … The easiest 'Blue Peter' solution would probably be to use a manual-focus webcam … slightly butchered, you shoud be able to unscrew the lens far enough to focus pretty close: Good enough for checking the pitch of a thread this size.

                                    MichaelG.

                                    .

                                    P.S. This page from Long Island Indicator may be of interest.

                                     

                                    Edited By Michael Gilligan on 11/06/2016 19:06:53

                                    #242377
                                    Frances IoM
                                    Participant
                                      @francesiom58905

                                      Niko – guess as being used in a precise instrument needs a very firm fit between the gauge and the extension rod and guess doesn’t want to damage the original thread

                                      #242380
                                      speelwerk
                                      Participant
                                        @speelwerk

                                        The original one has a diameter of 2.44 mm, I used M 2.6 for the one I made certainly not the correct thread but it has a much better fit than the original one and that without forcing it. Niko.

                                        dti.jpg

                                        #242383
                                        Dave Smith the 16th
                                        Participant
                                          @davesmiththe16th

                                          I have one of those digital ones on order, 1" travel so that should sort my problem as long as the shaft is 8mm..

                                          Nothing i want to do is ever straightforward All this to get ABS prints to stick to the glass bed on the 3D printer..

                                          PLA prints without any issues. Not had a failed PLA print in a very long time. Added the glass bed on the top of the table and heat it to 65 degrees and use a pritt stick just before the nozzle is at full temp. A quick wipe with it and done.

                                          #242386
                                          MW
                                          Participant
                                            @mw27036

                                            This would would well with a shadowgraph if you could get access to one. Buying one(and having the room for) would probably be way too expensive, it would be for me anyway. 

                                            Michael W

                                            Edited By Michael Walters on 11/06/2016 21:11:14

                                            #242399
                                            not done it yet
                                            Participant
                                              @notdoneityet

                                              CFE. College of Further Education. The place where many went to learn a bit more after leaving school. I worked there. Uni's (where you might get a full time degree) are another option. Many of us with a science degree have used these instruments for a range of scientific experiments.

                                              #242410
                                              John Ockleshaw 1
                                              Participant
                                                @johnockleshaw1

                                                Hello Dave,

                                                If you have , an old fashioned, slide projector mount your threaded plunger in the plane where the slide normally goes and you can have a wide range of magnifications.

                                                You can check the magnification by first using a drill shank, which is easily measured accurately, as the object.

                                                Regards John

                                                #242413
                                                Brian G
                                                Participant
                                                  @briang

                                                  I often scale things from digital photos. Prop the part up with some Blu Tack and put a steel rule close to it at the same height as the centreline (so as to place both in the same plane. Take the best image you can (with a macro focus option if available), and scale it up to fill your monitor. Then measure on the screen the screw pitch and the steel rule – use a plastic ruler to avoid scratching the screen. Apply the scale ratio from the photo to the component, i.e.

                                                  Pitch = real inches x photo pitch / photo inches

                                                  or

                                                  Pitch = real mm x photo pitch / photo mm

                                                  You can do the same thing (upside down) using a scanner, I used to do this to check plastic extrusions in the absence of a shadowgraph.

                                                  Brian

                                                  #242415
                                                  Hopper
                                                  Participant
                                                    @hopper

                                                    Just as a matter of interest, good info from Long Island Dial Indicators on tip standards here

                                                    **LINK**

                                                    So apparently, according to the third paragraph there, standard tip threads are either UN 4-48 or M 2.5, but deliberately made undersize so that if the threaded section breaks off inside the plunger, it can be easily removed. I guess it relies on the shoulder on the tip to hold it firm, not the thread, similar to how a lathe chuck is located on screw-on spindles.

                                                    It's a great site they have there at Long Island, well worth browsing around for a while.

                                                     
                                                     

                                                    Edited By Hopper on 12/06/2016 08:50:28

                                                    #242417
                                                    Michael Gilligan
                                                    Participant
                                                      @michaelgilligan61133

                                                      dont know deja vu

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