Newbie with an old Boley lathe

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Newbie with an old Boley lathe

This topic has 39 replies, 14 voices, and was last updated 21 October 2015 at 11:54 by Paul Narramore.

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12 October 2015 at 17:13 #207535
Paul Narramore
Participant
@paulnarramore61033
Hi, I am an utter novice with a lathe. I bought my 1940s Boley lathe a couple of years ago and have only used it for polishing stainless fasteners until now. I am restoring an old GoldWing motorcycle and needed to make a couple of spacers so thought it was about time I got some practice in. My first attempts using a pice of 18mm dia. brass was awful and I managed to both seize and snap off an 8mm twist drill in it, I then tried some aluminium bar with more success but I now know I should have used some cutting fluid. I still have difficulties getting the parting tool centred and the tip of the tool fell off! The lathe is without a power feed but it will do most of the jobs I'll need to do on it. Boleys seemed to have specialised in watchmaking lathes but this is a decent sized floor mounted lathe, and they were of German manufacture.
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12 October 2015 at 17:13 #7829
Paul Narramore
Participant
@paulnarramore61033
12 October 2015 at 20:31 #207553
Bazyle
Participant
@bazyle
Brass is notorious for grabbing the drill, pulling it into too deep a cut and breaking, but normally with smaller ones than 8mm. Normally the chuck just spins on the morse taper. It is often suggested that you blunt the drill by stoning a flat on the cutting edge, that is making a flat for a few thou in line with the axis of the drill so there is no sharp edge and it is scraping rather than cutting. All very well if you can have 2 sets of drills.
Otherwise you should use some oil so the chips can move easily and clear then very frequently to prevent jamming. Sometimes this type of drilling is called 'pecking'.
12 October 2015 at 21:07 #207559
Ajohnw
Participant
@ajohnw51620
Sounds like you might have one of their 4's. I think all of their lathes are listed here

**LINK**

I seem to have a charmed life drilling brass. I know it will grab so drill it's cautiously and take no notice of the noise it usually makes. Cautiously just means drill slowly. It takes very little effort at the feed.

Can't really comment on your parting off problem. A photo of the tool might help. To post that you need to create an album – the green album icon up the page, place the photo in it and then post it in a thread using the camera icon. Or put some where on the web and paste a link using the one next to the camera.

To post a shot the photo needs to be in the album before replying to a thread.

John

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12 October 2015 at 21:13 #207562
Neil Wyatt
Moderator
@neilwyatt
Welcome aboard Paul,

Your adventures suggest the lathe may not be perfectly adjusted, if tools are grabbing easily.

Might be worth checking the spindle and slides to ensure they are all well lubricated and without shake as a starting point.

Neil
12 October 2015 at 23:39 #207579
Fatgadgi
Participant
@fatgadgi
Hi Paul

Carrying on from Neil's suggestion, it's possible that the tailstock barrel has a lot of axial play.

As said above, brass loves to snatch and pull the drill into it. So if the tailstock barrel can allow the drill to move freely by a significant amount towards the work then I could imagine that it could grab and seize up.

Just a thought ….

Regards (and welcome) – Will
13 October 2015 at 00:55 #207582
Ady1
Participant
@ady1
Boley made nice gear. It will take you a while to master your machine but with time and effort you will not be disappointed. Try not to be too hard on your lathe, boleys were often precision machines
13 October 2015 at 11:14 #207618
Paul Narramore
Participant
@paulnarramore61033
According to John's link, mine may well be a Model 4LE as it has a steel drawer and cabinet beneath the bed. I degreased the lathe and bought some special oil resistant paint in light grey so she looks as smart as those in the link. A previous owner has fitted an electrical box to one side with what I presume to be a rheostat so the speed can be altered with the turn of a knob. Another switch reverses the rotation. Two oil reservoirs are fitted but these weep so oil eventually finds it's way onto the tray. (Don't worry, I will eventually get to learn the correct terms).

It's very possible that some parts are incorrectly adjusted, understandable on a 65yr old machine I guess. Since getting the tools properly set up to the centre point of the job, I will need to get a pointed tool to fit in the tail stock and adjust the height of the cutting tools with this.

We used to have a small model engineering shop in Maidstone, only a couple of miles from me but this moved a while back down to Staplehurst. I'm slowly accumulating small pieces of stainless steel, alloy and steel but I need to find a local supplier. There is an excellent stand which appears at my local classic motorcycle events, who sells all sorts of shapes and sizes of metals but that is no good if I want something straight away.

The last time I used a lathe was when I was at school, fifty years ago. I then spent many years as an engineering draughtsman but always wanted to desert my drawing board and make stuff. Thanks for the welcome.
14 October 2015 at 19:23 #207861
Paul Narramore
Participant
@paulnarramore61033
Today I went out to have another look at my old Boley after looking at numerous images of Model 4 lathes. The tailstock on mine doesn't have a wheel to wind the chuck in and out, but a long arm about 2ft long. I believe this may have been because the lathe was used for production work where the operator was required to produce dozens or even hundreds of a stock item.

The lathe is fitted with three oilers, all of which leak. Can anyone recommend oiltight oilers?

I have an adjustable parting tool on order through eBay.

This morning, whilst going through books in my personal library, I found an old copy of THE AMATEUR'S LATHE by L.H.Sparey in mint condition. That along with the numerous excellent videos on YouTube should get me well and truly started.
14 October 2015 at 19:30 #207864
V8Eng
Participant
@v8eng
Posted by Paul Narramore on 14/10/2015 19:23:09:

The lathe is fitted with three oilers, all of which leak. Can anyone recommend oiltight oilers?

I have Adams make of lubricators on my ML7, I purchased them at a Myford open day a few years ago.

They have been really good, there is a whole range on their website, here:

**LINK**

Edited By V8Eng on 14/10/2015 19:31:31

Edited By V8Eng on 14/10/2015 19:35:47
14 October 2015 at 20:49 #207873
David Clark 13
Participant
@davidclark13
Hi Paul Do you have fibre washers under the oiler mount? If not an O ring might do to stop oil leaking. Can you see the oil leaking out as eventually the oil from the bearings will reach the tray in the normal course of events.
15 October 2015 at 11:18 #207954
Paul Narramore
Participant
@paulnarramore61033
Well I put in a few squirts of oil – I wonder what the correct oil should be – into each oiler and by the next morning, the oil has found it's way into the tray. I guess that's a 'total loss' system and is meant to be like that. I think the problem is that the sprung loaded whatsits in the oilers don't actually seal themselves.

Thanks for the link V8.

I wonder what the chances of getting a conventional tailstock to suit my Boley?

(Later) On the question of lubricating oils, I could find nothing in this forum. The Boley does have a metal plaque with numerous oils recommended but I'm sure they are now obsolete. I did contact Esso(?) and quoted their lathe oil and was recommended the modern equivalent but it seems I can only buy 5 gallons at a time! I went onto an American forum and found it a 'nest of vipers'. Some people recommend an auto oil whilst others declare it is madness. Anything is better than nothing but the correct oil is best. A search on eBay brought up Esso Nuto VG32 from Myford (expensive) and Esso Nuto H32 from another source. A little baffling.

Edited By Paul Narramore on 15/10/2015 11:41:26
19 October 2015 at 17:09 #208505
Paul Narramore
Participant
@paulnarramore61033
Well after a few hours using my new 60yr old 'toy' I have turned up a stepped aluminium spacer for the motorcycle I am refurbishing, and today made two spacers, this time in stainless steel. They are now fitted to the bike and look very nice. Both the mudguard and the rear grab handle are now properly mounted to the frame and nicely bolted down with stainless Allen bolts.

So what did I learn? Well one YouTube video mentioned 'Rigidity, rigidity, rigidity' and he was right. Whilst I tried to keep the overhang of both round bar and cutting tool short, and ensured the parting tool was central, there was still a fair amount of chatter and some smoke. Unlike the videos on YouTube – 'Tom's Techniques' range of videos is interesting – when no cutting fluid was used, I actually did use some as this kept both the noise and smoke down, and the finish was better.

Also I was unsure of what speed to use. My plain lathe has no speed indicator just an add-on with a variable speed rheostat which goes from 'Dead Slow' to 'Fast'. So how fast for ally and how fast for stainless steel?

Cleaning up after doing some turning is a chore as the cutting fluid mixes with the swarf. Once cleaned down I have added a 'nappy' to the tray. These are oil absorbing pads made from layers of paper and used in aircraft servicing. My son can get hold of packs of them and they do absorb oil well such as when doing oil/filter changes on the bike or car.

The tool post on my lathe has a series of M4 Allen screws to hold the cutting tools and I don't think this is anywhere near secure enough. When I get around to it I shall drill and tap M6 or even bigger threads for larger Allen screws as these will hold the tools more securely.

All good clean fun so far
19 October 2015 at 17:29 #208508
Ajohnw
Participant
@ajohnw51620
Chatter on a lathe like that is more likely to be down to loose slides or head stock bearing possibly augmented by technique and tools.

M4 is big enough providing they are high tensile which they usually are. If not the ends bell out often making them difficult to remove.

John

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Edited By John W1 on 19/10/2015 17:45:36
19 October 2015 at 17:45 #208510
john carruthers
Participant
@johncarruthers46255
Have you tried MES for materials?
**LINK**
19 October 2015 at 18:24 #208514
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Paul,

Regarding Oils … Have a look at this recent thread.

What's good for Pultra should be good for Boley.

MichaelG.
19 October 2015 at 20:48 #208523
Ajohnw
Participant
@ajohnw51620
Anyone know what the spindle size is on this lathe. Morse 1, 2 , 3 etc. If it's up to Schaublin plain bearings size most people seem to use grade 32 hydraulic fluid in them. There may be people about on the yahoo Schaublin group that familiar with this lathe. It looks like it use adjustable taper bearings in the headstock and maybe a tapered gib strip on the saddle. The lathe co uk photo's don't show enough of the rest but the compound and cross slide look conventional.

John

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20 October 2015 at 09:33 #208568
Ian S C
Participant
@iansc
For speeds(depends on diameter), stainless, go to the lower speeds, you don't actually need it to smoke. For aluminium, start at mid range, and go up or down till it feels right, a bit of kerosene/paraffin UK is a good lube for aluminium, If you use carbide tools most work can be done dry.

Ian S C
20 October 2015 at 09:51 #208573
Paul Narramore
Participant
@paulnarramore61033
Posted by john carruthers on 19/10/2015 17:45:13:

Have you tried MES for materials?
**LINK**

Thanks John. They used to have a little shop in Maidstone but a while ago moved down to Staplehurst. As the sun is shining, I may get the motorbike out and have a ride down there. There's a classic motorcycle show at the East Sussex showground at Ardingly this weekend and there's always a stall there selling all sorts of metal, and cheaply too. I have bought some cutting fluid but when reading my book on cutting fluids, it says that they are 'soluble' and should be mixed with water. I used mine neat so had better read the instructions on the bottle!

The drill chuck came loose yesterday and it seems I was over enthusiastic with lubricating the Morse taper. I've cleaned it off and replaced it dry.

Is it good practise to mount a lathe tool in the tool post with packing pieces ABOVE and below the tool? I have only had the 5mm packing piece below the tool and with the screws bearing down on the top of the tool.
20 October 2015 at 10:14 #208586
ega
Participant
@ega
Paul Narramore:

I was a frequent visitor to the Hedley Street premises when MES were in Maidstone and do occasionally get down to Staplehurst. As has already been pointed out they do have an online catalogue and shop.

No pictures yet of your Boley which I hope you will not modify without careful thought.

Morse tapers should not be lubricated (although a thin film of oil keeps rust at bay and should do no harm).

Speaking of oil, Warco and others sell in small quantities but I wonder whether you could get some thorough the Maidstone ME club which I believe still has its model railway at Mote Park.
20 October 2015 at 17:00 #208626
Paul Narramore
Participant
@paulnarramore61033
Modify? Who said anything about modifying? One thing I would like though is a conventional tail stock. The existing one has a long lever to pull on; I've been told this is because the lathe was once used for production purposes, churning out loads of small parts.

No pictures, I know. It seems whenever I go to yet another forum (Family history, gardening, motorbikes, F1…) each has a completely different method of attaching photos. The only way I know how to do it, and which works some of the time, is to use my smartphone and post on Facebook. Transfer it from the FB page onto a forum then delete the first image. Ball aching, I know, but….. I will have yet another go though. Heck, I can't even attach my avatar!

(Later) I've just tried to read and understand "How to post images and create an album" but my eyes quickly glazed over and I nodded off. Far, far to complicated for me. I was born in 1946 for goodness sake!

Edited By Paul Narramore on 20/10/2015 17:02:12

Edited By Paul Narramore on 20/10/2015 17:07:10
20 October 2015 at 17:16 #208628
ega
Participant
@ega
Paul Narramore:

I clearly read too much into your reference to fitting larger clamp screws to your toolpost. You have my sympathy on the photo-posting point.
20 October 2015 at 17:43 #208633
Ajohnw
Participant
@ajohnw51620
The only thing confusing about posting photo's on here is which albums icon to click. Use the green one and click create. Also use that one for anything you want to do with your photo's including adding more.

The other confusing thing is that the shot needs to be in the album before starting a post that you want to put it in.

When that's sorted out just click the camera icon on the post you are making and select the photo.

Or if somewhere on the web the one next to it in the same group and paste in a link.

John

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Edited By John W1 on 20/10/2015 17:44:02
20 October 2015 at 17:48 #208634
Paul Narramore
Participant
@paulnarramore61033
Ah, I have had another look and have posted an image of my 1977 Honda GL1000 I am currently working on, so just have the one image in my album (Boley 4LE (possibly)). I have now taken a few images of the aforesaid lathe and will put these into the album when they've loaded up. This MAY be easier than I imagined………..or it may not. Yes, the toolpost screws are I think M4 Allen screws and I may go up one size, or I may not. My Clarkes Cutting Fluid, by the way is NOT soluble so can be used neat from the bottle. My wife had her hair coloured this morning and the small bottle it came in has a small spout, just right for the job too.
20 October 2015 at 18:01 #208637
Paul Narramore
Participant
@paulnarramore61033
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