Cross drilling

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Cross drilling

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  • #303172
    John Rudd
    Participant
      @johnrudd16576

      I need to cross drill some 3/32 diameter rod, hole will be 1 mm diameter.

      What is the usual method for doing this with most accuracy?

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      #25312
      John Rudd
      Participant
        @johnrudd16576
        #303175
        Jim C
        Participant
          @jimc

          Hi John, You could maybe mill a small flat on the bar and spot and drill it after marking out in the old fashioned way or indexing across the dia. with wobbler. Or better, you could produce a drill bush from rectangular bar and use that?

          Jim.

          #303176
          JasonB
          Moderator
            @jasonb

            Hold in vice with a bit sticking out and use edge finder on either side then half the readings so you are above ctr of the rod, small spot drill then 1.0mm drill.

            In practical terms I usually put teh spot drill in teh chuck and pinch a steel rule between that and the work, adjust position until rule is horizontal then spot and drill, really depends what accuracy you need, this is good enough for a thou or so.

            #303181
            John Flack
            Participant
              @johnflack59079

              I would drill a square section piece lengthways the dia. of the rod,drill a ,cross hole dia vertically through the lengthways hole, couple of threaded holes to clamp, face off one end of the block to give positive location.

              Material and hardening to choice and need. Vertically drill hole cut of surplus, piercing saw or Dremel, step and repeat as required

              I am a simple soul, there could be very complicated alternatives

              #303191
              John Rudd
              Participant
                @johnrudd16576

                Thanks for the replies….some great ideas there..

                I was thinking of the square ( round? ) bar drilled up the centre with a 1mm hole drilled through one face, but wondered about accuracy….I guess the accuracy is dependant on how well made my bar is marked out and drilled…sad

                The hole being drilled is in the valve stem for my Webster engine….( yeah….another unfinished symphony….lol) I thought I might make some progress with it…

                #303193
                Tony Pratt 1
                Participant
                  @tonypratt1

                  John R,

                  You have been given multiple options but nobody has asked what equipment you have & how many pieces do you want to drill?

                  Please advise as it's going to have some relevance to a practical answerwink

                  Tony

                  #303196
                  JasonB
                  Moderator
                    @jasonb

                    If it is only for the pin to retain the spring on a valve then I have used the ruler method plenty of times for that and all the engine run, why go to the bother of making jigs

                    #303201
                    John Rudd
                    Participant
                      @johnrudd16576
                      Posted by JasonB on 19/06/2017 15:29:37:

                      If it is only for the pin to retain the spring on a valve then I have used the ruler method plenty of times for that and all the engine run, why go to the bother of making jigs

                      Yup its for the pin, as for accuracy in drilling the hole, I'd like it to be as good as possible so it looks better than a hole drilled off centre….

                      Jig wise, probably a bit of bar, with a tapped hole ( m3 ) for a grub screw to hole the valve while I drill……nothing too elaborate….

                      Equipment wise, I have my 626 mill with dro on x and y, my Sieg minimill, no dro……3 lathes…..

                      Should be enough tooling there to drill 2 little holes in 2 valves…wink

                      #303213
                      JasonB
                      Moderator
                        @jasonb

                        John why not use the first method I suggested as that is accurate, hold work in mill vice, touch one side with edge finder and zero dro, touch otherside and then use half function which will then allow you to position quill directly above ctr of work and then spot & drill (you would need to do this for the cross hole in the jig anyway)

                        Jig method can introduce errors, can you get bar running spot on in the 4-jaw, will 3mm hole start dead in the middle, will 3mm hole wander along length of bar, will 1mm cross hole be dead in teh middle and slight clearances on teh holes will allow bar & drill to move slightly. And as for having a grub screw bear on your newly turned valve stemfrown

                        I know which way I would do it but maybe thats why I get a lot of engines made and don't waste time with jigs or using more accuracy than is needed.

                        #303215
                        richardandtracy
                        Participant
                          @richardandtracy

                          I have, with a very fine hole done it this way:

                          • Saw off a section of the bar, about the same length as your drill bit, put it in the drill chuck.
                          • Clamp the drill vice to the bar and then clamp the vice down to the drill press table while the quill is extended by the amount of bar in the chuck.
                          • Put the drill in the chuck.
                          • Put the bar in the vice and use a tiny file to make a very small flat.
                          • Now drill, it'll be pretty well in the centre, the offset being only as much as you deflected the press while tightening things up.

                          This has worked for me with tubes as small as 1.5mm with a 0.7mm cross hole in a drill press bought from Argos.

                          Regards,

                          Richard.

                          Edited By richardandtracy on 19/06/2017 16:14:11

                          #303219
                          Gordon W
                          Participant
                            @gordonw

                            I bought a V on a M2 taper. Put in tailstock, with a bit of modding will do for 30mm dia.. Bought from Arc for a one off and now it's the tool of choice.

                            #303220
                            Roger Woollett
                            Participant
                              @rogerwoollett53105

                              A method I have used involves a custom V block.

                              Clamp a bit if MDF to the mill table and use the tip of a centre drill (or something else that produces an approximate V groove) to cut a V groove across the MDF. Lock the table so the groove is directly under the mill axis. Now clamp the round bar into the groove and drill in the normal way. I have done this with 1mm rod and a 0.5 mm drill successfully.

                              #303226
                              John Rudd
                              Participant
                                @johnrudd16576

                                So, have I put the cart before the horse?

                                I have already made the valves…..methinks this may make the job harder? angry

                                Shudda ( gone to RadioRentals…) drilled the holes first….perhaps?

                                #303228
                                JasonB
                                Moderator
                                  @jasonb

                                  I drill mine last

                                  #303230
                                  richardandtracy
                                  Participant
                                    @richardandtracy

                                    Absolutely – an interrupted cut can lead to a poor finish.

                                    Regards,

                                    Richard

                                    #303232
                                    not done it yet
                                    Participant
                                      @notdoneityet

                                      have already made the valves…..methinks this may make the job harder?

                                      Practise on a piece of scrap 2.38mm bar first?

                                      #303234
                                      Tony Pratt 1
                                      Participant
                                        @tonypratt1

                                        Hi John,

                                        JasonB is spot on with his last 2 posts, did this sort of thing in industry for over 35 years.

                                        Tony

                                        #303243
                                        John Rudd
                                        Participant
                                          @johnrudd16576

                                          Ok,

                                          I'll let you all know how I get on…( or not…)

                                          #303269
                                          Chris Gunn
                                          Participant
                                            @chrisgunn36534

                                            I always make a jig, it does not take long, I do not bother with splitting or hardening, just a screw to nip the work which can be a brass one if you are worried about marking the work, and if you have a lot to do the jig makes it easy. Over the years I have made a few to suit various diameters, and they are often reused. They are stored in a plastic bin labelled cross drilling jigs next to another marked happy drilling jigs.

                                            Chris Gunn

                                            #303279
                                            David Paterson 4
                                            Participant
                                              @davidpaterson4

                                              Take a short length of brass round and chick in the lathe.

                                              centre drill 1mm about 6 mm deep.

                                              part off , do not disturb in chuck

                                              centre drill through hole 3/32 – ream if you are fussy

                                              set up in vice with 3/32 hole horizontal and 1mm hole resting on the bar – like a laid-down 'L'

                                              1mm hole provides a guide that will be centred. best if you drill right through the brass first then insert the piece you want to put the hole through.

                                              #303293
                                              Clive Hartland
                                              Participant
                                                @clivehartland94829

                                                A 2 part jig is best, do a few test holes and pick the best and use that hole to do any extra holes.

                                                #303323
                                                JasonB
                                                Moderator
                                                  @jasonb

                                                  Just out of interest I thought I would see how the two centering methods I suggested in my first reply compare. Used a 3/32" stub drill held horizontal in the mill vice with 1/4" sticking out

                                                  Mill, DRO and electronic edge finder put it to 0.000 as far as the DRO accuracy will go. so set the Absolute to that

                                                  Mill, and rule was used to find ctr on the incremental setting then switched between the two to compare the difference in the two readings.

                                                  0.00019" or 0.005mm difference, this is actually the smallest increment my 5micron DRO will give. So as I said for me the ruler method is good enough 99% of the time.

                                                  And while drinking my tea I has a count up of the small cross holes ( >.250" rods) in the current hit and miss engine I'm making. I would need 9 jigs to suit the rod/hole combinations on that one model alone and for what when I can get 5micron accuracy without them better if I use the edge finder.

                                                  Maybe back in the day when all that was available was a lathe and possibly a drill press the jig was the way to go but for me at least things have moved on. A mill with DRO makes a very accurate drilling machine.

                                                  J

                                                  #303474
                                                  Meunier
                                                  Participant
                                                    @meunier

                                                    JasonB, thanks for the clear explanations, very useful for me. What electronic edge-finder do you use ?

                                                    DaveD

                                                    #303480
                                                    JasonB
                                                    Moderator
                                                      @jasonb

                                                      PEC, Got it from MSC but not sure if they do them now. It's the 1/2" shank 0.200" tip one as I mostly work in imperial, the cylindrical end is better than the ball type for use on round items like this as it is not critical on ctr height hich saves having to wind the table about to position it either side of the bar.

                                                      Firefly16

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