Old lathes in good condition do come up for sale, as do some real tat – well worn out and possibly beyond redemption without spending far more for restoration than it is worth.

A beginner may not realise whether it is the operator or machine which is at fault if poor results are abundant.

Modern machines (imported from cheap labour sources) built down to a price may not be too durable – whereas the old iron in good condition may well last far better than the new stuff.

You mention milling – are you intending to mill on the lathe or purchase a dedicated milling machine

? Discrete machines are nearly always the better option – less re-mounting of parts during the machining process, better rigidity and generally more robust than 'add-on' conversions. There are exceptions, of course, but fewer and further betwe

en!

I would likely lean towards a new lower cost machine, initially, if you have no mechanical 'nous' and progress to a more 'competent' machine later, as your experience grows. This likely means some steepish depreciation but hedges against the possibility of eventual larger financial loss should you decide against continuation in the ho

bby (ie start small and upgrade later). I now have old iron and I don't think they will depreciate (likely the opposite!).

For the adequately funded beginner, taking a staged approach into the hobby has much to recommend it.

In this approach you eliminate the uncertainty of a second hand purchase and buy a new Mini-lathe.

You don't have to worry about transporting it to your workshop. If it's broken on arrival you can send it back Most come with a reasonable set of accessories: chucks, centres, steadies, spanners etc. Earlier gross quality problems seem to have been fixed, but, to set expectations, do not expect the lathe to be as good as a new Western lathe costing four to eight times as much.

A mini-lathe is small enough to fit on an ordinary table, runs from the domestic supply, and is quiet in operation. It will not dominate your workshop! A mini-lathe can easily be moved by two weaklings, and a fit man could do it on his own. Moving a bigger lathe can be much more problematic, soon requiring mechanical aids and a small team.

Once set up, a mini-lathe does all the basics that a beginner has to master : you can turn steel, cut threads, bore, and learn about chucks, backplates, travelling steadies and use of the tailstock. etc. It will give you a feel for the cutting behaviour of different metals and tools – how fast can you cut, how to get a good finish, and how to work accurately.

It will also teach you about its limitations, and what to look for in should you decide to upgrade later. Size restrictions are the most obvious limitation, but using a mini-lathe will inform you about Backlash, ease of adjustment (gibs etc), bearings, gearboxes, clutches, motor power, T-slots on the cross-slide, quick change tooling and much else.

When it comes to buying second-hand, an ounce of practical experience is worth a ton of theory. If you know what to expect from using a mini-lathe, it's much easier to detect wear, and to tell the difference between a well cared for bargain in good order, a fixer upper, and scrap metal. You will also have a much better feel for what you want of a lathe. There's a big difference between clockmaking and mending classic cars.

Should it turn out that you hate metalwork, a mini-lathe isn't a serious disposal problem. Being 'adequately funded' means that the moderate cost (under £1000) could be written off if the worst happened. Actually, you could certainly recover some of that by selling it on. And you won't need to hire a crane to get rid of of it!

The big problem for Paul buying a mini-lathe is his desire to turn fishing reels. A bigger machine would make that much easier, but it pushes the price up.

One actual advantage the modern hobby lathes have over older kit is the ability to turn at higher speeds. This makes it more reasonable to use indexed carbide tools, which don't perform well at low speed, For the beginner, indexing is attractive because you don't have to learn another new skill, which is how to grind HSS, and coolant / lubrication issues are less intrusive. (Later on, you may prefer HSS, but this is a sign of growing expertise.)

That's the case for the mini-lathe. But be aware that many chaps on the forum have picked up absolute bargains, partly because they know what they are doing, but also luck and circumstances! Over the last 20 years market changes have caused most educational establishments and engineering firms to dump good quality manual equipment wholesale in favour of CNC. Some of it is virtually unused, and much of it is well maintained. All you have to do is avoid the crocks, worn-out, thrashed, or expensively broken! Another good source is the workshop of a model engineer separated from his tools by death or illness. Some people spend more time keeping their kit in good order than they do making things.

In conclusion, the beginner has a lot to learn. Taking it step by step is good fun. What makes learning a nightmare is taking on too much at once, for example by using a lathe that's fundamentally flawed in ways you don't understand yet. Especially if you sold the farm to pay for it.

Whatever Paul decides to do, please stick with it – using a machine tool to make things one of the most deeply satisfying things I've ever done.

Dave

CL500M

That(?) is what I bought, many years ago. Never really used the milling option (need a good riser block for a start). It is currently in pieces (to remove it from its location) and will be rebuilt for moving on. I never really got on so well with it and have since replaced it by a Raglan LittleJohn MkIi. Superior, IMO, than a myford – a boxford might be better (but generally a younger item?).

A Raglan 5" would, in hindsight, have been even better, but at more initial cost. I will admit that some aspects were definitely due to my inexperience in metal cutting, at the time. My wood machining experience was rather better than metal machining at the time!

My Raglan with QCGB, rapid long travel traverse (compared to the CL) and powered cross feed was far less money. It needed a good going over (due, largely, to storage circumstances) but I would now never go back to the CL.  Fiddling with V belts, change wheels and manual long and cross travel (or slow long travel using the powered feed) is a phase of my experience which is now well in the past!

The smaller model 430 might be a more manageable option (sufficient swing for your needs?). I am biased – the Raglan lathe and mill both have my admiration and I much prefer the old iron. I also have a Centec mill, which is both horizontal and vertical, really heavily built and will perform as good as, or better than, a modern chinese offering (which will be built down to a price rather than up to a quality) in the price range.

I would suggest you have a look at the older british product fora, to get a feel of the possible problems and the claimed advantages of ownership, before deciding. There are yahoo and freeforums groups (as well as a search on this forum, of course). Just don't be rushed into a decision. Time is on your side. Mistakes can be costly.

Edited By not done it yet on 21/12/2016 07:48:49

Welcome! from another Howard!

My advice would be: before spending any money, try to find a Model Engineering Society (Club) near to you.

This could well be the place to find out which ones are near to you. (Where are you located)

Hopefully, members will be prepared to show and demonstrate their machines (and their prejudices!) to you.

You will benefit from their experiences, and gain some at the same time.

They will also offer advice on where to obtain material, and overcome any problems that may arise.

Time in research will be well spent. And you may be able to get one of the members to come with to assess the condition of a secondhand machine. Bear in mind that an ex industry Dean, Smith and Grace, Swift, Edgwick, Harrison or Colchester may well be badly worn. Whilst an ex Tech College machine may have seen little use, and be little worn, it may have been inadvertently abused by students running the Saddle into the Chuck and so on. (Although that might be more cosmetic than terminal).

Think about, and get advice on, what accessories, such as Steadies, Faceplates, etc; and any spares, you might need, and their availability.

Above all; Make Haste Slowly.

Howard

Would have to agree with this wholeheartedly, you can't go straight into what might be a fiddly restoration on an old lathe, you'll only encounter frustration as a beginner. It's best to learn from a modest yet new machine you can depend on. Escalation with necessity is probably the way most of us have navigated this hobby.

Theres a great quote from clint eastwood in gran turino, he shows a kid his garage full of his car restoration tools to his amazement. He asks him how he got them,

and he replies "well even a numbskull like you can figure out it takes a man most of his life to create a collection like this" – Very true of most..

Michael W

Edited By Michael Walters on 21/12/2016 14:36:41

There is an Acorn 5 x 24 lathe for sale on www lathes .co ,might be worth a look at if its not too far from you, plenty of stuff with it for about the same price as a mlnnie lathe .

The big four jaw shown in the pics i think may be too big for this lathe, the 5 is centre height so will swing 10" dia

…………………..b

if possible try to take someone with you who knows the things to look out for when buying second hand lathe if you go that route ……..b

Edited By bodge on 22/12/2016 03:50:35

The Acorn looks a very good deal indeed. Not very often you will find one as well equiped. A bit of loving care needed to clean all the accessories up.

Just not sure if it will provide metric threads. The way it reads it looks as though its had a Norton type gearbox conversion with the original change wheels included. Not familiar with this model but no doubt a telephone call to Tony at Lathes will will help.

Its located in Rochdale which is only about 8 miles from me so if anybody wants a second set of eyes for viewing and the vendor is OK with it, will be happy to oblige and accompany.

Malc

I've had an Acorntools version of the Atlas lathe since the 1970's. I am quite happy with it and wouldn't swap it for a Myford. It is like a bigger version of a Myford series 7. They come with power crossfeed as standard.

They do cope well with metric screwcutting without the use of the gearbox. The threading chart on mine lists 16 metric pitches although you do have to wind the lathe back, without disengaging the half nuts, between each pass so a reversing motor is a big benefit.

The screwcutting gearbox isn't a conversion but was a standard option and is rather rare now.

Russell